1. SubscriberFMF
    Main Poster
    This Thread
    Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    29835
    04 Apr '15 01:52
    Suzianne, recently on the 'Who is the bigger blasphemer?' thread:

    "Dogs understand having an unconditional love, and therefore, in some respects I can see dogs having a better understanding of God than some people do."

    Is this a perspective that Christians here are inclined to agree with?
  2. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    04 Apr '15 10:521 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Suzianne, recently on the 'Who is the bigger blasphemer?' thread:

    [b]"Dogs understand having an unconditional love, and therefore, in some respects I can see dogs having a better understanding of God than some people do."


    Is this a perspective that Christians here are inclined to agree with?[/b]
    No its hogwash. Gods love is not unconditional. A fact often misunderstood by those with a purely emotional faith. He only holds out the prospect of everlasting life to those who put faith in his son, just by way of example. John 3:16. Clearly the condition is that you exercise faith in Jesus Christ.

    The idea that Gods love is unconditional is rather interesting and I would be interested in discussing how or why it has come about either scripturally or otherwise.
  3. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    86395
    04 Apr '15 11:11
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    No its hogwash. Gods love is not unconditional. A fact often misunderstood by those with a purely emotional faith. He only holds out the prospect of everlasting life to those who put faith in his son, just by way of example. John 3:16. Clearly the condition is that you exercise faith in Jesus Christ.

    The idea that Gods love is unconditional i ...[text shortened]... would be interested in discussing how or why it has come about either scripturally or otherwise.
    I think the onus is on you to demonstrate how god's love is conditional and not that "salvation" is conditional; which is what I think you are conflating. We've been here before and you failed to demonstrate the distinction between these two concepts then.
  4. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    04 Apr '15 11:251 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I think the onus is on you to demonstrate how god's love is conditional and not that "salvation" is conditional; which is what I think you are conflating. We've been here before and you failed to demonstrate the distinction between these two concepts then.
    I have already provided a scriptural reason with reference which demonstrates that Gods love is not unconditional. Why you seek to introduce irrelevancies when the subject under discussion is not salvation but gods love I cannot say. Are you capable of maintaining a line of thought in harmony with the discussion?
  5. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    04 Apr '15 11:301 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I think the onus is on you to demonstrate how god's love is conditional and not that "salvation" is conditional; which is what I think you are conflating. We've been here before and you failed to demonstrate the distinction between these two concepts then.
    I have a message from you from Badger, he says, Die! I am sure you understand what its with reference to, I don't, I am only the messenger.
  6. SubscriberFMF
    Main Poster
    This Thread
    Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    29835
    04 Apr '15 11:311 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I have already provided a scriptural reason with reference which demonstrates that Gods love is not unconditional. Why you seek to introduce irrelevancies when the subject under discussion is not salvation but gods love I cannot say. Are you capable of maintaining a line of thought in harmony with the discussion?
    You mentioned John 3:16. Is John 3:16 about "salvation"? Or is it about "love"?
  7. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    86395
    04 Apr '15 11:33
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I have already provided a scriptural reason with reference which demonstrates that Gods love is not unconditional. Why you seek to introduce irrelevancies when the subject under discussion is not salvation but gods love I cannot say. Are you capable of maintaining a line of thought in harmony with the discussion?
    You are completely misinterpreting John 3:16. Let's looks at it:

    John 3:16New International Version (NIV)
    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

    For God so loved the world. First fact God is love, God loves the world (all people)

    He so loves all people THAT, he gave his son. This is the indication of the measure of how much God loves all people.

    And importantly only now come the limiting condition...That whosoever believes in him...

    The conditional element is on the believing into Jesus, not the measure of God's love.
  8. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    04 Apr '15 11:37
    Originally posted by FMF
    You mentioned John 3:16. Is John 3:16 about "salvation"? Or is it about "love"?
    why are you assuming that both are mutually exclusive? if you are not assuming that they are mutually exclusive then your question makes no logical sense. I have provided a reference which demonstrates that Gods love is not unconditional. Are you saying that it is unconditional, Yes? then what basis do you have? If not then please spare me these petty squabbles about whether the verse is about love or salvation. I am not interested.
  9. SubscriberFMF
    Main Poster
    This Thread
    Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    29835
    04 Apr '15 11:40
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    why are you assuming that both are mutually exclusive?
    Because of what John 3:16 actually says.
  10. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    04 Apr '15 11:401 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    You are completely misinterpreting John 3:16. Let's looks at it:

    John 3:16New International Version (NIV)
    [b]For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


    For God so loved the world. First fact God is love, God loves the world (all people)

    He so loves all ...[text shortened]... him...

    The conditional element is on the believing into Jesus, not the measure of God's love.[/b]
    So why are you making a distinction between Gods love and everlasting life? Is not everlasting life an expression of Gods love? why are you assuming that they are mutually exclusive? if they are not mutually exclusive then your assumption that they are and the reasoning you give make NO SENSE, so tell us why they should be considered mutually exclusive? Here i will make it easy for you

    everlasting life is not an expression of gods love because. . . . .
  11. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    04 Apr '15 11:42
    Originally posted by FMF
    Because of what John 3:16 actually says.
    and how does that demonstrate that Gods love and everlasting life are mutually exclusive? is the gift of everlasting life not an expression of Gods love? If not why not?
  12. SubscriberFMF
    Main Poster
    This Thread
    Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    29835
    04 Apr '15 11:42
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    If not then please spare me these petty squabbles about whether the verse is about love or salvation.
    You think the difference between Christian conceptualization of God's "love" on one hand and "salvation" on the other is "petty"?
  13. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    04 Apr '15 11:431 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    You think the difference between Christian conceptualization of God's "love" on one hand and "salvation" on the other is "petty"?
    here i will make it easy for you as well. Everlasting life is not an expression of Gods love because. . . . .
  14. SubscriberFMF
    Main Poster
    This Thread
    Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    29835
    04 Apr '15 11:44
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    and how does that demonstrate that Gods love and everlasting life are mutually exclusive? is the gift of everlasting life not an expression of Gods love? If not why not?
    According to the verse, does God "love the world" or not? Does it then create a condition for "salvation", or not?
  15. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    04 Apr '15 11:45
    Originally posted by FMF
    You think the difference between Christian conceptualization of God's "love" on one hand and "salvation" on the other is "petty"?
    No i think you are petty. I cannot be much clearer than that.
Back to Top