A better understanding of God

Originally posted by FMF
Shortly before 04.30 my time: "I therefore reject your silly assertion that we push our religion on anyone, we are probably the most diplomatic of all people that go from house to house and certainly the most polite. "

A few moments later, the same self-identified follower of Christ: "Eight million witnesses world wide celebrated the memorial of Christ death, ...[text shortened]... n figures. Yup plastic through and through. Haters gonna hate and dweebs gonna keep on dweebin."

So what? Am I at his door as an uninvited guest, no? then your silly and petty attempt to make anything of it is as silly as your sidekicks irrational prejudices. He fully deserves to be mocked. 20,000,000 people gathered together and he accused us of being anti social, bwahahahah, let him preach to his action men figures, let him hand out caramel wafers and Ribena, I mock his assertions of being anti social with empirical evidence to the contrary.

Your friend likes to dish it out, hes not so hot at taking it, is he.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
So what? Am I at his door as an uninvited guest, no? then your silly and petty attempt to make anything of it is as silly as your sidekicks irrational prejudices. He fully deserves to be mocked. 20,000,000 people gathered together and he accused us of being anti social, bwahahahah, let him preach to his action men figures, let him hand out caramel ...[text shortened]...

It's just that, with your insistence on bringing Clan Forum ethos to the Spirituality Forum, you often seem to sell yourself short.

Your friend likes to dish it out, hes not so hot at taking it, is he.

To be honest, it is you who seems pointedly unable to handle criticism, and not divegeester.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Yes I still have no idea what you are talking about. The condition for everlasting life (an expression of Gods love) is that you exercise faith in Jesus Christ. If you do not exercise faith in Jesus Christ you cannot get everlasting life and Gods love in this instance is withheld from you. Its beautifully logical, very simply and abundantly clear.

"Yes I still have no idea what you are talking about."

Let's try again!

"The condition for everlasting life (an expression of Gods love) is that you exercise faith in Jesus Christ."

I'd like to see you prove that based on scriptural evidence. I'd also like to know how you equate God's love with everlasting life, and just exactly what is it that you do to earn either God's love and/or everlasting life.


"If you do not exercise faith in Jesus Christ you cannot get everlasting life and Gods love in this instance is withheld from you."

I have already provide two verses that prove that God demonstrated His love towards us even before we believed, or as you put it, "exercise faith" in Jesus.

"Its beautifully logical, very simply and abundantly clear."

What is abundantly clear are the scriptures, not you! God loved this world, and you and I before we were ever born, and demonstrated that love by sending His son to die for our sins.

God is love. He loves us whether we believe or not. God's salvation is given as a gift to those who believe. You and I deserve neither, and salvation cannot be earned. Very simple and abundantly clear.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Strange I have never pushed my religion on anyone, if people say that they are not interested i just go away. I have had many people push their views on me though. I therefore reject your silly assertion that we push our religion on anyone, we are probably the most diplomatic of all people that go from house to house and certainly the most polite.
...[text shortened]... ealthy. The statement that we are overdressed is nonsense. We dress formally for the occasion.[/b]

Do you speak for all Jehovah Witnesses? How do you know my assertion is silly?

I'm happy to accept (without evidence to the contrary) that you personally do not push your religion on anyone, and are polite and diplomatic when you turn up on someone's doorstep. That however is not my experience of Jehovah Witnesses.
As a mental health worker i have seen many of my clients targeted due to their vulnerabilty by Jehovah Witnesses who were a million miles away from polite and diplomatic. - On one occasion i was with a client in his home when they came to his door and was shocked by the manner in which they spoke to him, clearly thinking he was by himself. He was almost bullied on his own doorstep and his obvious vulnerability, fear and anxiety ruthlessly exploited. (Until of course i made my presence known and told them to clear off).

You are gravely mistaken if you think all Jehovah Witnesses are polite and respectful when they turn up univited on our doorsteps. (And attired in a frilly cravat doesn't make them so).

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Do you speak for all Jehovah Witnesses? How do you know my assertion is silly?

I'm happy to accept (without evidence to the contrary) that you personally do not push your religion on anyone, and are polite and diplomatic when you turn up on someone's doorstep. That however is not my experience of Jehovah Witnesses.
As a mental health worker i ha ...[text shortened]... n they turn up univited on our doorsteps. (And attired in a frilly cravat doesn't make them so).

Targeting? same old jive the Romans accused the early Christians of targeting those they consider vulnerable, children and the uneducated. Same old. Why do we never hear you talking about the deaf congregations that we have set up, or the thousands of people we have taught to read, or the prostitutes and drug addicts we have helped overcome dire circumstances, or the literature we print at our own cost for the blind, or those we have helped out of abject poverty. Tell us why we never hear you talking about that while your at it. Come on seeing that you know all about it.

How do I know your assertion is silly? because I have been a witness for twenty years and you, how long have you been a witness? I have literally called on thousands of homes all over the UK with many different people and spoke to persons from all walks of life and all kinds of faiths and you? how many have you called on? What that makes me is adequately more qualified to portray Jehovahs witness than someone with as limited experience as you, does it not? and on that basis I say your objections are silly and petty at least and a gross falsehood at most.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Do you speak for all Jehovah Witnesses? How do you know my assertion is silly?

I'm happy to accept (without evidence to the contrary) that you personally do not push your religion on anyone, and are polite and diplomatic when you turn up on someone's doorstep. That however is not my experience of Jehovah Witnesses.
As a mental health worker i ha ...[text shortened]... n they turn up univited on our doorsteps. (And attired in a frilly cravat doesn't make them so).

If you do not put faith in Jesus Christ you cannot gain everlasting life, therefore everlasting life comes with a condition. Everlasting life is an expression of Gods love, therefore Gods love comes with conditions. Logical, clear and perfectly in harmony with scripture.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
If you do not put faith in Jesus Christ you cannot gain everlasting life, therefore everlasting life comes with a condition. Everlasting life is an expression of Gods love, therefore Gods love comes with conditions. Logical, clear and perfectly in harmony with scripture.

We were talking about God's unconditional love robbie. How did you manage to twist the topic around to a debate about everlasting life?

Was it the verses I showed you that compelled you to squirm away? You should quit trying to be the smartest guy in the room and learn something for a change.

God's love, and His salvation cannot be earned. They are both unconditional.

Do you not know how many covenants God made? Under the law there is the condition imposed on the one that expresses faith, i.e. keep the law and be blessed, or break the law and be cursed.

The cross sealed the deal robbie. Now we are under grace and there are no conditions, i.e. God gives eternal life to all that believe. No conditions, and no works.

All one does is believe, and believing isn't doing anything like meeting conditions.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
No it is not, never the less to be unacquainted with the most widely translated, widely distributed and widely available book in the history of humanity is in itself an indication of a lack of education.

We disagree. If every day, the latest edition of "The Sun" gets translated into every language and forced into every household under threat of death and torture (a bit like how the Bible was spread I suppose) if it is rejected, I will still think it is a load of crap.

Similarly I and others hold the Bible is a load of crap; and we should not be expected to have to read it.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie

How do I know your assertion is silly? because I have been a witness for twenty years and you, how long have you been a witness? I have literally called on thousands of homes all over the UK with many different people and spoke to persons from all walks of life and all kinds of faiths and you? how many have you called on? What that makes me is adequat ...[text shortened]... on that basis I say your objections are silly and petty at least and a gross falsehood at most.[/b]

I think you are rather missing the point. I 'witnessed' unacceptable behaviour by a pair of Jehovah Witnesses. (Tottenham, London). Why do you find it easier to label this observation as 'silly' or a 'falsehood' than to acknowledge you can not speak for the behaviour of all Jehovah Witnesses who may not be quite so polite and unforceful as you yourself claim to be. (At least i would have respected such an answer, rather than just burying your head in the sand).

How many have i called on? I'm pleased to say none, not a solitary person have i disturbed on a Sunday morning.

Your experience does not make you qualified to judge; it just makes you biased and a bit of a plimsoll.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I think you are rather missing the point. I 'witnessed' unacceptable behaviour by a pair of Jehovah Witnesses. (Tottenham, London). Why do you find it easier to label this observation as 'silly' or a 'falsehood' than to acknowledge you can not speak for the behaviour of all Jehovah Witnesses who may not be quite so polite and unforceful as you yourse ...[text shortened]... perience does not make you qualified to judge; it just makes you biased and a bit of a plimsoll.

So you say. Last time i was in Tottenham I got my car broken into and my wallet stolen. I went to the congregation at Enfield, someone had smashed all the windows in the Kingdom hall only a week before. I also visited the congregation at White heart lane, a West Indian dude took the meeting, looked like the lead singer from hot chocolate, was awesome. Also visited the brothers from Ghana that I knew, they were beautiful.

I am not burying my head in the sand as you claim, i was not there, i only have your word for it. All I am saying that its not been my experience nor is it typical.

Still unable to say anything about the amazing things we have accomplished, oh dear, how biased and here you are pontificating about that very thing. Thanks but we wont be taking lesson in how to conduct the witnessing work from a novice like you, you might freak out if one of the west Indian brothers shows up in a funky suit. Neeeeext!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie

Still unable to say anything about the amazing things we have accomplished,...

I have no knowledge of the amazing things you have accomplished.


Do you think perhaps you could accomplish them a little further away from my doorstep?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I have no knowledge of the amazing things you have accomplished.


Do you think perhaps you could accomplish them a little further away from my doorstep?

Yes about as far away as you can get as far as I am concerned. No one likes calling on ingrates. The Witnesses probably tread the garden path with trepidation, 'oh no! not this lemon sucker again.'

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I have no knowledge of the amazing things you have accomplished.


Do you think perhaps you could accomplish them a little further away from my doorstep?

I had a similar conversation and reaction from Mr Carobbie a while back. I told him and another witness of two very negative experiences I was aware of, one of which involved my wife and brother-in-law (he had cancer as a child, local jw's knocked on the the door several times, to 'offer support' and try to convince his parents to not accept blood).....his reaction was to call me a liar.

Originally posted by josephw
We were talking about God's unconditional love robbie. How did you manage to twist the topic around to a debate about everlasting life?

Was it the verses I showed you that compelled you to squirm away? You should quit trying to be the smartest guy in the room and learn something for a change.

God's love, and His salvation cannot be earned. They are bo ...[text shortened]... o works.

All one does is believe, and believing isn't doing anything like meeting conditions.

The JWs seem to get amnesia at opportune moments for them. 😏

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
EPIC FAIL. The condition is that you exercise faith in Jesus Christ you silly man.

Love is God's nature and it is unconditional. Salvation is conditional.