Archangel Michael

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Yes Conrau brought the matter up once where he essentially attempted the argument that
which one of the angels has God likened to his son, or words to that effect, however, it
seems to me that we are not talking of any common angel, but a unique and singular
entity, foremost above all angels. Could this be a description of the Christ? we have ...[text shortened]... sent one), a
created entity (Col 1:15) and a son of God (as were the other angelic creatures).

It was the Word that was with God in the beginning that we know from
John's gospel was the preincarnate Christ. We also know from the letter
to the Hebrews that He created all things that were created. Therefore
He could not have been one of the things created. We are told He was
begotten, not created. Michael the archangel is a created being he was
not begotten for there was only one that was begotten of God.

Originally posted by RJHinds
It was the Word that was with God in the beginning that we know from
John's gospel was the preincarnate Christ. We also know from the letter
to the Hebrews that He created all things that were created. Therefore
He could not have been one of the things created. We are told He was
begotten, not created. Michael the archangel is a created being he was
not begotten for there was only one that was begotten of God.

so was Christ, he is not termed 'the only begotten', for nothing you know. He is not
termed 'the first born of all creation', for nothing you know. Christ had a beginning, he
was a created entity, take it or leave it.

Originally posted by stoker
of what??

of all the things that you stated, seven archangels ministering to God might be a good place to start.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
of all the things that you stated, seven archangels ministering to God might be a good place to start.

The earliest reference to a system of seven archangels as a group appears to be in
Enoch I (the Book of Enoch) which is not part of the Jewish Canon, where they are
named as Gabriel, Michael, Raphael, Uriel, Raguel, Remiel and Saraqael. While this
book today is non-canonical in most Christian Churches, it was explicitly quoted in
the New Testament (Letter of Jude 1:14-15) and by many of the early Church Fathers.
The Ethiopian Orthodox Church to this day regards it to be canonical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Archangels

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Yes Conrau brought the matter up once where he essentially attempted the argument that
which one of the angels has God likened to his son, or words to that effect, however, it
seems to me that we are not talking of any common angel, but a unique and singular
entity, foremost above all angels. Could this be a description of the Christ? we have ...[text shortened]... sent one), a
created entity (Col 1:15) and a son of God (as were the other angelic creatures).

Alright. But you know that folks are going to take issue with this, since scripture is pretty clear about not worshipping angels, praying to them, etc. Do you think that these prohibitions only apply to the other, lesser angels? Is it Michael/Jesus' arch-ness that makes worship of/prayer to him OK?

Originally posted by bbarr
Alright. But you know that folks are going to take issue with this, since scripture is pretty clear about not worshipping angels, praying to them, etc. Do you think that these prohibitions only apply to the other, lesser angels? Is it Michael/Jesus' arch-ness that makes worship of/prayer to him OK?

Right and God the Father commanded all the Angels to worship God the Son.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
First i must apologise to Whodey who raised this question for it was asked in sincerity
(i think) and was met with a rather abrupt answer not becoming a servant of the
most high, therefore one shall endeavour to treat this with as much reasonableness
as is possible under the circumstances.

(Jude 9) But when Michael the archangel had a differe ...[text shortened]... o by that name since his return to heaven where he resides
as the glorified spirit Son of God.

I'm gradually coming to understand the enmity there is between you and I robbie. Until you posted this (and I confirmed the doctrine via some quick research) I sought to recognise you as a fellow believer; but the fact is you recognise a different Jesus to me, your Jesus is "another Jesus", your Gospel is "another gospel", in fact it really is no Gospel at all.

I am completely incredulous at your OP, how can you an intelligent studied man seriously believe this depth of error based on a few tenuous scriptures? I am so sad for you my friend, but I have to say that your stubbornness borders on deliberate unbelief.

Heb 1:4 and 6
"So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs."

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”

Take care.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
of all the things that you stated, seven archangels ministering to God might be a good place to start.

micheal..gabriel...raphiel...uriel...raguel...sariel.. jeremiel..
but as for the four letters of god we have them in the ot but no one says the name even any angel. and how can i say jesus never said other than he never said??

Originally posted by bbarr
Alright. But you know that folks are going to take issue with this, since scripture is pretty clear about not worshipping angels, praying to them, etc. Do you think that these prohibitions only apply to the other, lesser angels? Is it Michael/Jesus' arch-ness that makes worship of/prayer to him OK?

Hi, yes this is clear, but its not really an issue because we do not profess that one
should worship Christ nor pray to him, in fact it seems that those doing so are
worshipping the creation rather than the creator. Worship of angels as always been
forbidden as far as i can discern, some refusing even to give their names lest it detract
from proper and exclusive devotion to the creator. There are of course certain issues
with translation where the translators have rendered a phrase, essentially meaning to ,
bow down or do obeisance as is the manner in the east at the time, yet when it comes
to Christ, it suddenly becomes an act of worship. Its interesting to follow their bias in
this regard.

Originally posted by stoker
micheal..gabriel...raphiel...uriel...raguel...sariel.. jeremiel..
but as for the four letters of god we have them in the ot but no one says the name even any angel. and how can i say jesus never said other than he never said??

Gabriel and the others are not archangels. In fact, i think that there are only two
angels mentioned by name in scripture. Do you have a scriptural reference to the
contrary?

[i]Originally posted by RJH to are
named as Gabriel, Michael, Raphael, Uriel, Raguel, Remiel and Saraqael. While this
book today is non-canonical in most Christian Churches, it was explicitly quoted in
the New Testament (Letter of Jude 1:14-15) and by many of the early Church Fathers.
The Ethiopian Orthodox Church to this day regards it to be canonical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Archangels[/b]

i have slightly diferent names similar sarageal is sariel and remiel is jeremiel but i do not dispute there existance

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Gabriel and the others are not archangels. In fact, i think that there are only two
angels mentioned by name in scripture. Do you have a scriptural reference to the
contrary?

read rjhinds reply i have no better

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm gradually coming to understand the enmity there is between you and I robbie. Until you posted this (and I confirmed the doctrine via some quick research) I sought to recognise you as a fellow believer; but the fact is you recognise a different Jesus to me, your Jesus is "another Jesus", your Gospel is "another gospel", in fact it really is no Gospel ...[text shortened]... d is superior to theirs."

“Let [b]all God’s angels worship him.”[/i]

Take care.[/b]

Here is the whole quote:

For to which of the angels did He ever say,

“YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU”?

And again,

“I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME”?

And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,

“AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM.”

And of the angels He says,

“WHO MAKES HIS ANGELS WINDS, AND HIS MINISTERS A FLAME OF FIRE.”

But of the Son He says,

“YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS;
THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU
WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.”

And,

“YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,
AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN;
AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT,
AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP;
LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED.
BUT YOU ARE THE SAME,
AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END.”

But to which of the angels has He ever said,

“SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES
A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET”?

Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service
for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?

(Hebrews 1:5-14 NASB)

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm gradually coming to understand the enmity there is between you and I robbie. Until you posted this (and I confirmed the doctrine via some quick research) I sought to recognise you as a fellow believer; but the fact is you recognise a different Jesus to me, your Jesus is "another Jesus", your Gospel is "another gospel", in fact it really is no Gospel d is superior to theirs."

“Let [b]all God’s angels worship him.”[/i]

Take care.[/b]

An archangel is superior to all other angels, just saying, I have issues with the
translation of the term 'worship', but you would have to understand the Greek term to
understand any explanation, sorry.

Originally posted by stoker
read rjhinds reply i have no better

so no , there are only two mentioned in the Bible by name, one archangel, thankyou for
establishing that.