Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I would have thought you at least would know what he's on about, oh Goat, unless you're being deliberately obtuse.

I think he has valid points, but anyone defending this is more related to astronomy than astrology is the one being deliberately obtuse.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
The Sun has been exactly as responsive as the Christian God. Actually, it's even more responsive, since it lets me see it.

Sight cannot be your only source for varification. Consider the wind. You cannot see 'the wind' but you can certainly feel/see its effects. But is this rebuttle made in the defense of your sun God? If I remember correctly, most of those civilizations that worshiped the sun have passed on. So much for a responsive god in the sun. Feel free to repeat their mistakes though. ^_~

Originally posted by 3kaji
Sight cannot be your only source for varification. Consider the wind. You cannot see 'the wind' but you can certainly feel/see its effects. But is this rebuttle made in the defense of your sun God? If I remember correctly, most of those civilizations that worshiped the sun have passed on. So much for a responsive god in the sun. Feel free to repeat their mistakes though. ^_~

so the validity of a civilization is based on how long it lives and
ours must be valid because it has been going on for 2,000 years?
So the fact the egyptian civilization lasted for about 4000 years
makes it what, more valid than ours? or less valid since it is not
here now? So the fact that ancient egypt lasted 4000 years maybe
means their gods were twice as strong as ours? You notice Islam
is nipping at your heels, how long do you think christianity will hold
up under that kind of pressure? Or do you think christians will win
out because their god given mandate will allow them to kill every
muslim on the planet and therefore it is better because it wins
the battle?

Originally posted by Palynka
I think he has valid points, but anyone defending this is more related to astronomy than astrology is the one being deliberately obtuse.

You seem to have forgotten that the distinction between the two is of relatively recent date. There is a link between mythology and astronomy. Perhaps you can tell me--what is Easter?

Oh, and, Christians, please remember the inspirational story of the 3 Wise Men.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
You people lack imagination.

Here's a decent enough link that covers the arguments:http://jesusastrotheology.netfirms.com/

A book would be better. If you've got the attention span, try The Golden Bough (James Frazer) for starters. Better still, The Origins of the Sacred (Dudley Young).

Or maybe just ask yourself, what is Easter?

You could learn something from all this, you know.

Thanks for the referances I will follow up and with Burroughs.
Have you read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn? Attempts to answer the
question 'how did we get where we are now'.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Thanks for the referances I will follow up and with Burroughs.
Have you read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn? Attempts to answer the
question 'how did we get where we are now'.

I haven't--I'll look it up. Thanks.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
You seem to have forgotten that the distinction between the two is of relatively recent date. There is a link between mythology and astronomy. Perhaps you can tell me--what is Easter?

Oh, and, Christians, please remember the inspirational story of the 3 Wise Men.

There is a link between astronomy and astrology as well, astrology attributes meanings to astronomical events and bodies that generally do exist (planets, stars/constellations, orbits, equinoxes, etc).

Astronomical events being celebrated are astrology to me because for astronomy they simply happen, they don't mean anything, so there's no reason to celebrate.

I'm also not surprised that some celebrations outlive a religion and mingle with the one that replaces it, there are many religions with influences of pagan practices. Celebrations of equinoxes are a clear example. So here I agree with David C.

Originally posted by sonhouse
so the validity of a civilization is based on how long it lives and
ours must be valid because it has been going on for 2,000 years?
So the fact the egyptian civilization lasted for about 4000 years
makes it what, more valid than ours? or less valid since it is not
here now? So the fact that ancient egypt lasted 4000 years maybe
means their gods were ...[text shortened]... them to kill every
muslim on the planet and therefore it is better because it wins
the battle?

Oops, you missed the point. The validity is not of the civilization, but of God, who sustaines his people. Where those who worshiped nature or stone idols will come and go God maintains his Promises to sustain his people. And He has.

Originally posted by Palynka
There is a link between astronomy and astrology as well, astrology attributes meanings to astronomical events and bodies that generally do exist (planets, stars/constellations, orbits, equinoxes, etc).

Astronomical events being celebrated are astrology to me because for astronomy they simply happen, they don't mean anything, so there's no reason to cele ...[text shortened]... of pagan practices. Celebrations of equinoxes are a clear example. So here I agree with David C.

One way of looking at the zodiac is to think of it as projection--human psychological drama (in turn intimately linked to the changing seasons) projected onto the sky. As above, so below.

Our psychology has altered, though. In fact, I think it had already altered quite profoundly when JC came on the scene. Well, Buddha had already done his spiel in India, and the old gods were pretty much finished...So it's a pity that Christ was turned into an ersatz Apollo.

As to 2012...very long astrological cycles (great years) may bring unforeseen changes. Who can say?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
One way of looking at the zodiac is to think of it as projection--human psychological drama (in turn intimately linked to the changing seasons) projected onto the sky. As above, so below.

Our psychology has altered, though. In fact, I think it had already altered quite profoundly when JC came on the scene. Well, Buddha had already done his spiel in ...[text shortened]... to 2012...very long astrological cycles (great years) may bring unforeseen changes. Who can say?

I went to the astrojesus site, and am wondering if you know where
this guy is going with this, that is to say, from all the red lines
and upper case it looks like some versions of a sub-faith trying to
convert yet another bunch of brainless to his cause. I only read
about half of his page and will continue all the way through and
may be totally wrong here but I do smell an agenda brewing.
Do you see one or am I wrong here?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
As to 2012...very long astrological cycles (great years) may bring unforeseen changes. Who can say?

Not the stars, and even less those that claim they can read them.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I went to the astrojesus site, and am wondering if you know where
this guy is going with this, that is to say, from all the red lines
and upper case it looks like some versions of a sub-faith trying to
convert yet another bunch of brainless to his cause. I only read
about half of his page and will continue all the way through and
may be totally wrong here but I do smell an agenda brewing.
Do you see one or am I wrong here?

I'd be surprised if he didn't have an agenda. I just scanned it to see that most of the typical bases were covered. I'll read it through as well and we can discuss whether or not the guy is one of the corrupt in search of blind sheep...

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Can you tell us, David, what is the link between the equinoxes and some of the charming mythological personages that tend to crop up in these discussions?

You know, I had hoped this might spark some kind of discussion beyond the 'crackpot hypothesis' stage, but it seems many are clinging to their ratty, tattered security blankets as tightly as they can...theist and non-theist alike.

The link is a result of the position of the constellations as the sun rises during the vernal equinox, a fairly significant celestial event. Especially, one would suspect, to primitive societies. The sunrise is ushered in by the constellation of the Age (in our case Pisces). Owing to the odd 'wobble' of the Earth's axis, the equinoctial constellation changes every 2150 years, and makes a full circuit approximately every 25,800 years (known as a 'Great Year'😉.

While there is ample debate on the origin of the Western zodiac, it remains unclear when the current iconic 'signs' were first used. Wiki's article refers the origin to Sumer, which would make them ancient indeed. I have an alternative theory placing the origin even earlier that that...but at this point breaking out with J.A. West's dating of the Sphinx hardly seems prudent. I'm sure most of the gathered here think I'm some sort of escaped asylum fugitive as it is.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I would have thought you at least would know what he's on about, oh Goat, unless you're being deliberately obtuse.

Wow. You make me sound all smart and stuff.

No, I don't know what he's on about, but thanks for the compliment!

Originally posted by 3kaji
Sight cannot be your only source for varification. Consider the wind. You cannot see 'the wind' but you can certainly feel/see its effects. But is this rebuttle made in the defense of your sun God? If I remember correctly, most of those civilizations that worshiped the sun have passed on. So much for a responsive god in the sun. Feel free to repeat their mistakes though. ^_~

Yes, I can feel the wind. That is, I can feel a sensation on my skin, and I can observe the way objects are blown about. I have never experienced anything analogous with respect to God.

I am not defending any sun God. I am saying that the Sun has more evidence for it's godliness than the Christian one does. At least it's pretty clear it exists.