@medullah saidWhats all that you keep repeating? Im not discussing that.
I hate nobody sir. You are totally missing the point which is ...
That Catholicism was an amalgamation if modified Christian doctrine in order to fit in with the pagan practices of Rome, which in turn were drawn from Babylon.
So the Catholic religious authorities renamed Saturnalia to Christmas, and the festival to Ishtar became Easter and so forth. This leads to quest ...[text shortened]... seek to answer it that on half if anyone, just remind anyone interested that it is a consideration.
Im saying that the bible used by Christ and the Apostles contains references to what people call purgatory, and also baptism for the dead. These are doctrines rejected by some churches but it is in the bible.
@kellyjay saidKudos.
I will apologize to you, and everyone else, I do mean everyone else for losing my temper. My bad, I obviously let my temper go!
The soul of Christianity is humility.
@rajk999 saidWhere about, I’m always happy to expand my horizons?
Whats all that you keep repeating? Im not discussing that.
Im saying that the bible used by Christ and the Apostles contains references to what people call purgatory, and also baptism for the dead. These are doctrines rejected by some churches but it is in the bible.
@medullah saidWhat bible do you read. Do you have one on your computer? If you do then get the Douay or Brenton version. These have only the Old Testament and contain all the books of the Septuagint.
Where about, I’m always happy to expand my horizons?
Read it. Get also some online versions of books which were in the Jewish Library but which were excluded from the Bible. They open your eyes.
@rajk999 saidThe Douay translation isn’t exclusively the Old Testament. That you are relying on the first Catholic Translation of the bible to prove the existence of this ritual speaks volumes.
What bible do you read. Do you have one on your computer? If you do then get the Douay or Brenton version. These have only the Old Testament and contain all the books of the Septuagint.
Read it. Get also some online versions of books which were in the Jewish Library but which were excluded from the Bible. They open your eyes.
If you can come up with the book chapter/verse I’m happy to listen, but it smacks of you calling something else by this name and aren’t too sure.
I’m happy with most versions with a wonderful copy if the King James dating to the early 1900s as one of my prized possessions (with the reference to “Popish Persons” in the preface.)
@ghost-of-a-duke saidChristianity does not improve anyone in any way, nor does it propose to. We are all fallen sinners; that’s been official doctrine from the very beginnings of Christianity. “There are no good Christians in heaven, only forgiven ones.” I’m sure KellyJay will affirm that this is the doctrine.
I'm expecting you to live up to your own standard, derived from your own faith.
Perhaps I expect too much of you.
Edit: End of the day, that's really what it comes down to, doesn't it. For all that talk about being transformed by the holy spirit there is nothing that sets you apart from the average atheist. You exhibit nothing that suggests Christianity improve ...[text shortened]... . Even when your own scripture tells you to turn the other cheek you pick and choose what to follow.
@moonbus saidChristianity not so much, I agree, it is just a name of something anyone can claim for any reason. Becoming born again through Jesus Christ makes us new creatures and the sanctification begins. This means we are improved not by anything we can do for ourselves, but by Christ in us who does change us from the inside out.
Christianity does not improve anyone in any way, nor does it propose to. We are all fallen sinners; that’s been official doctrine from the very beginnings of Christianity. “There are no good Christians in heaven, only forgiven ones.” I’m sure KellyJay will affirm that this is the doctrine.
Many here accept God wrote His laws on our hearts at birth, so we know His laws, they are internal to us. For some reason, they want nothing more to do with God. While He gave us right from wrong even in our broken state we can know right from wrong; how be it in our broken state we don't always get it right. Cleaning that up requires God, we don't want God instead many want the illusion of being masters of our fate, to set the standards as we see fit.
@medullah saidI would have thought a Christian would be interested in knowing what was contained in the bible Jesus and the Apostles used. The KJV left out about 12 books. I would say that puts the KJV readers at a bit of a disadvantage.
The Douay translation isn’t exclusively the Old Testament. That you are relying on the first Catholic Translation of the bible to prove the existence of this ritual speaks volumes.
If you can come up with the book chapter/verse I’m happy to listen, but it smacks of you calling something else by this name and aren’t too sure.
I’m happy with most versions with a wonderfu ...[text shortened]... early 1900s as one of my prized possessions (with the reference to “Popish Persons” in the preface.)
@kellyjay saidChanged from inside out ?? Are you repudiating your oft/repeated claim that all men are evil by nature? that mankind’s evil nature is immutable?
Christianity not so much, I agree, it is just a name of something anyone can claim for any reason. Becoming born again through Jesus Christ makes us new creatures and the sanctification begins. This means we are improved not by anything we can do for ourselves, but by Christ in us who does change us from the inside out.
Many here accept God wrote His laws on our hearts ...[text shortened]... God instead many want the illusion of being masters of our fate, to set the standards as we see fit.
@moonbus saidThat is a rubbish doctrine. Jesus said clearly, that he will welcome the RIGHTEOUS into the Kingdom of God. The righteous was clearly defined as those who did the good works of feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and helping the poor. Others are cast out. KJ and his church buddies have their heads up their butts.
Christianity does not improve anyone in any way, nor does it propose to. We are all fallen sinners; that’s been official doctrine from the very beginnings of Christianity. “There are no good Christians in heaven, only forgiven ones.” I’m sure KellyJay will affirm that this is the doctrine.
His professed faith is pointless if he does not do these things. Faith is just the vehicle that moves you to do the right thing, and if you dont then both you and your vehicle are dead.
Good Samaritans all over the world do the right thing and these are the people loved by God and God abides with them.
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@rajk999 saidIt is a fatalistic doctrine, and one which I do not share.
That is a rubbish doctrine. Jesus said clearly, that he will welcome the RIGHTEOUS into the Kingdom of God. The righteous was clearly defined as those who did the good works of feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and helping the poor. Others are cast out. KJ and his church buddies have their heads up their butts.
His professed faith is pointless if he does not do th ...[text shortened]... ll over the world do the right thing and these are the people loved by God and God abides with them.
I await KJ’s answer to my previous question, whether he is walking back his claim that all men are immutably evil by nature. Whether he has the temerity to claim he is an improved human. Accepting Christ does not change what man is in this life, only his probable fate in the afterlife. Acccepting Christ forgives, but does not improve, man’s nature. That would be consistent with what he has posted previously.
@moonbus saidMankind's evil nature is passed down from Adam, we are sons of Adam, sons of man, but with Jesus Christ, born again, fulfilling what Scripture speaks about receiving a new birth, a new nature. Justification is but the first step when we receive the Lord, walking that out is a different thing it is where the sanctification begins.
Changed from inside out ?? Are you repudiating your oft/repeated claim that all men are evil by nature? that mankind’s evil nature is immutable?
We are born again from above, so we can walk with God forgiven and worship Him in spirit and in truth. This is why Scripture teaches us that those who walk in the flesh cannot please God. Salvation is a divine act of God, not the will of man who thinks he can get worthy, or earn his way into the Kingdom of God, justified first, follow the Lord Second. That we become one as Christ and the Father are one, in Christ.
Romans 5:10
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
John 17:11
And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.
Ephesians 2
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.