Being righteous, doing God's righteousness works.

@kellyjay said
God being good and just would have to accept evil and in doing that become corrupt which would run counter to His nature.

I don't think the bible evidences a deity who is both good and just. At times He is clearly quite the opposite.

@rajk999 said
So lets say you are right. The Rich Man in the parable, just went to the grave, what is the point of all of this Jesus says after the man died and went to the grave :

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remem ...[text shortened]... se from the dead. (Luke 16:24-31 KJV)

So Jesus did not know the truth about the grave.

Are you having a laugh? Are you seriously citing that as an argument for an eternal roasting ?

@kellyjay said
Matthew 3:10
Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

John 15:6
If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with hi ...[text shortened]... s life, they happen anyway, our notions about those things we like and dislike do not alter reality.

This lot is not an argument for eternal suffering (from a god of love no less) ?

You mentioned the formation of the word Hell in another posting , can you advise where the word originated from please?

@moonbus said
One might still be tempted to, and that is what KJ keeps reminding us of when he says we are all evil at heart.

But in principle I do agree with you that people can change for the better.

I’m with you, and it can be indecently from anything supernatural.

@medullah said
Are you having a laugh? Are you seriously citing that as an argument for an eternal roasting ?

I never once supported the doctrine of eternal suffering, neither did Jesus said that man was facing 'eternal roasting' This is how some churches dramatise the teachings of Christ and make fun of it, losing the lesson and ridiculing the doctrine. It is a dangerous practice. I am promoting the teachings of Christ. If someone does not, or can not support the teachings of Christ then he cannot really call himself a Christian.

I notice you have that problem of not believing what Jesus said. Previously you said that there is no point in raising the dead for punishment citing some irrelevant doctrine. When I quoted you where Jesus said so clearly that the some dead are raised for punishment you just ignored it.

Its a common practice among professed Christians. They proclaim faith, and that Jesus is the way the truth and the life, but then they proceed to contradict the teachings of Christ.

If you read the Bible Jesus and the Apostles used, many of these apparent contradictions about life, death and punishment vanish.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I don't think the bible evidences a deity who is both good and just. At times He is clearly quite the opposite.

So a good and just holy God creates a universe that is filled with beings that all can choose, and with the ability to choose can say no to God. Instead of choosing good choose evil, choosing evil over loving, and in this universe, the reality is such that consequences, real consequences follow both good and evil, right and wrong choices. What is a good God to do in your opinion?

As men walk uphill those going the opposite way will always be going downhill, as men do good, they also do evil blessings and curses follow. We are not a people who are TOTALLY depraved, to be that we are given over fully to evil desires and nothing else, we know enough that it is good and we also can choose to do that, but our nature is corrupted, there is no escaping that. Someone fully given over to evil is without regret for anything they do, their conscience is completely seared, and no excuses are necessary for them anymore for anything they do.

Do you think this is wrong, that God should not allow the bad that occurs due to our evil choices, should they be mitigated in some way? Maybe have the universe alter itself making the evil we would do not have the consequences be as real as they should be? Maybe God should have made us so we cannot do evil forcing on us that which we don't want to do, instead of allowing us to act willfully. Exactly what should God do with evil while He is good and righteous, and those He gave the ability to act in evil ways even see the horrible consequences fully and still long to do them? Remember in the end the stated reason for our being is we are to be image bearers of God, and we have corrupted ourselves and like the corruption so we most prefer it over the good. Exactly when do you think God is not good when He acts when He has had enough of our evil?

@kellyjay said
So a good and just holy God creates a universe that is filled with beings that all can choose, and with the ability to choose can say no to God. Instead of choosing good choose evil, choosing evil over loving, and in this universe, the reality is such that consequences, real consequences follow both good and evil, right and wrong choices. What is a good God to do in your o ...[text shortened]... he good. Exactly when do you think God is not good when He acts when He has had enough of our evil?

I am talking of God's actions in the bible not man's. Like when he sent bears to rip children to pieces. Where is your good and just God in that scenario?

There are many many other examples.

@kellyjay said
Exactly what should God do with evil while He is good and righteous, and those He gave the ability to act in evil ways even see the horrible consequences fully and still long to do them?

Your notion that everything and anything your God figure does is, by definition, "good" is a very convenient - almost facile - "argument", but I don't think it has much moral coherence when discussing morality with people who do not subscribe to ancient Hebrew folklore.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I don't think the bible evidences a deity who is both good and just. At times He is clearly quite the opposite.

He is good, just, loving, merciful, and all of His other attributes at the same time all the time without exception. We are the ones that flip back and forth being evil in our actions here facing His Justice, or through our repentance receiving His mercy there, so it isn't Him changing it is our constant fluctuating between righteousness and evil that makes Him appear to be something other than constant, while His everlasting love is the driving force in all He does.

We mistake His mercy towards us as Him not being consistent if He were consistent we would have been destroyed right off the bat. He loves us we are to be His image bearers, so because of that, He shows us His love and grace even though we are in the fallen world acting/being as His enemies, He is treating us as sons and daughters correcting us and has called us out of this fallen world to be one with Him. So we were called and justified, then sanctified learning to turn away from the evil we do. While we were sinners, His enemies, He displayed His love towards us, He is quite clearly consistently the God who never changes, while we act according to our nature doing good here and evil there.

@medullah said
This lot is not an argument for eternal suffering (from a god of love no less) ?

You mentioned the formation of the word Hell in another posting , can you advise where the word originated from please?

It comes from scripture, as you correctly stated it is a word translated from several different words, but as Jesus speaks about it you should take what He says as the definitive truth. It gets mentioned in passing by everyone else, Christ spoke about it more than anyone else, and not once did it come off as a good thing we would look forward to enjoying.

Matthew 3:10
Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Matthew 3:12
His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

Matthew 7:19
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Matthew 18:8
And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.

Matthew 18:9
And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.

Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

John 15:6
If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

Revelation 14:10
he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

There are other references, but if you think nothing of the warnings, that is on you. Hell was made for the devil and His angels as we join Him we will also be given our just recompense for the evil done, every manifestation of evil in thought or deed through neglect or action will be dealt with before the new heaven and earth are populated, nothing evil will go forward into the eternal Kingdom of God, it will be consistently good, righteous, loving, and so on.

@kellyjay said
He is good, just, loving, merciful, and all of His other attributes at the same time all the time without exception.

It's as if you have never read the OT.

Exodus 12:29 - God kills first born of Egypt, even though they were nothing to do with Pharaoh's policies. - Good, just, loving, merciful?

1 Chronicles 21:9-14 - David orders a census, God kills 70000 people as punishment.
- Good, just, loving, merciful?

Give me a break.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I am talking of God's actions in the bible not man's. Like when he sent bears to rip children to pieces. Where is your good and just God in that scenario?

There are many many other examples.

I have replied to this complaint many times, EVERY SINGLE LIFE starts and ends with God, He cannot do something wrong concerning any death as He chooses to end them, and if He does it with cause, His reasoning is His. So when someone does something wrong and an action by God takes place ending a life it ended for cause, again good God, evil humanity. Show me one example where God does something evil just because where righteousness was not in play.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
It's as if you have never read the OT.

Exodus 12:29 - God kills first born of Egypt, even though they were nothing to do with Pharaoh's policies. - Good, just, loving, merciful?

1 Chronicles 21:9-14 - David orders a census, God kills 70000 people as punishment.
- Good, just, loving, merciful?

Give me a break.

Yes, read it, God judges nations by the leadership of the nations, (the US is in so much trouble now), and the actions of the whole nation of Egypt brought about the judgment on the whole nation, you should read the text instead of just looking to find something you want to try and use against God.

Mercy is not ending the whole nation, stopping so there is a possibility of repentance and turning back to God.

@kellyjay said
I have replied to this complaint many times, EVERY SINGLE LIFE starts and ends with God, He cannot do something wrong concerning any death as He chooses to end them, and if He does it with cause, His reasoning is His. So when someone does something wrong and an action by God takes place ending a life it ended for cause, again good God, evil humanity. Show me one example where God does something evil just because where righteousness was not in play.

A cop out.

God kills children by bears and He is still good, due to being God. Where exactly is his righteousness in such a action?

Such a god doesn't deserve worship.

@kellyjay said
Yes, read it, God judges nations by the leadership of the nations, (the US is in so much trouble now), and the actions of the whole nation of Egypt brought about the judgment on the whole nation, you should read the text instead of just looking to find something you want to try and use against God.

Mercy is not ending the whole nation, stopping so there is a possibility of repentance and turning back to God.

I'll ask you again directly. 1 Chronicles 21:9-14 - David orders a census, God kills 70000 people as punishment.

Please argue the case for God being good, just, loving, merciful in the above instance. (You claim that is his nature without exception).