Believing in Jesus... up to a point

@josephw said
Faith doesn't "make" one believe anything. You are merely "keenly" aware of what you think faith is, but without personal experience of the spiritual experience of the operation and application of true faith.

the operation and application of true faith

Talking about the "operation" and "application" of faith is another way of referring to what it makes you think and do.

@fmf said
Yes, I do know what it is. Losing one's long-held faith gives one a very vivid insight into what is was and is. Perhaps my insight even makes me more able to understand what faith is than you are.

Perhaps you can provide a biblical basis for "losing faith".

I posit that one cannot "lose" faith. One can cast it aside, but it isn't lost.

I submit you didn't really have biblical faith. You think you did, but if you had; and the object of ones faith being Jesus Christ, and the faith you think you lost was in him, and that faith informed you of the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ, but you "lost" said faith, you were never born again because you didn't really have the faith the Bible talks about.

So no, you don't know what faith is.

@josephw said
Perhaps you can provide a biblical basis for "losing faith".

Why?

@fmf said
Who knows?

I do. Evidently you don't.

@josephw said
I submit you didn't really have biblical faith. You think you did, but if you had; and the object of ones faith being Jesus Christ, and the faith you think you lost was in him, and that faith informed you of the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ, but you "lost" said faith, you were never born again because you didn't really have the faith the Bible talks about.

OK, your perspective is noted.

@josephw said
I do. Evidently you don't.

Who knows if you were just being fatuous or not

@fmf said
It absolutely is. For example, it's making you think that it has supernaturally transformed you, and, another example, it makes you think that you are immortal.

Is not.
You're lost in the weeds. Faith isn't the cause of being born again. Faith doesn't "make" one know truth. "Faith" is relative to its object. Faith "in" Jesus Christ opens the door to what God alone can do.

Only God can cause one to be born again, but unless one has "faith" "in" Jesus Christ God will not act.

@fmf said
It absolutely does.

If that's what you think, then you don't know what faith is.

@fmf said
"Spiritual experiences" are all functions of cognition.

If that's what you think, then you have never had a spiritual experience.

Perhaps you're confusing an emotional response to a cognitive function with the real deal.

@fmf said
I do have personal experience of the personal phenomenon you are referring to.

Then you are "born again" and have eternal life. And know it.

@josephw said
Then you are "born again" and have eternal life. And know it.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

Being born again requires Jesus Christ, we can all have experiences, but if they do not involve Jesus, it doesn't matter.

@fmf said
the operation and application of true faith

Talking about the "operation" and "application" of faith is another way of referring to what it makes you think and do.

You're still not getting it.

Faith is the fundamental principle that underscores belief in action.

Faith doesn't make one do anything. Faith is belief in action.

For example: let's say you discover that Jesus actually rose from the grave. You understand it's true. You believe it. That's faith. Faith didn't make you believe it. Faith didn't inform you of the truth of the resurrection. Faith is the action of belief when something is understood to be true.

@fmf said
Who knows if you were just being fatuous or not

No need to be suspicious. I don't lie. As much as possible. 😇

@kellyjay said
2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

Being born again requires Jesus Christ, we can all have experiences, but if they do not involve Jesus, it doesn't matter.

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

Look at the next verse.

"But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates."