21 Dec 16
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkYes, I know you believe this. But the question, as I think you know only too well, was 'Without the "good works", though, no amount of "faith" will save them, is that what you mean'?
Actually without faith no amount of 'works' can save us.
21 Dec 16
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkThat's all right. I suspected you would just refuse to answer it anyway. It's the simple fact that you have balked that's interesting, not the reason you've given.
If I believed your question was sincere and your motives were pure, I might have answered it.
21 Dec 16
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkYou seem to be saying there must be "good works" on one hand (although you do not want to say it unequivocally), but, on the other, your take on the thief story suggests that there don't have to be "good works". I'll just go on my memory of what we talked about before. If it's not important to you to be clear and unequivocal when talking about your Christian faith, then that is both your prerogative and ~ it would seem ~ your chosen persona.
Remember our long discussion about the thief on the cross?
21 Dec 16
Originally posted by EladarBut your statement - The answer is obviously no for anyone who believes the Bible - implies that you think anyone who disagrees with you in their interpretation of the Bible doesn't believe the Bible. That's the assertion I am saying is a bit silly because you know full well that there are people who believe in the Bible who disagree with you. What is silly about pointing this out?
The fact that you could make such a statement is just silly.
21 Dec 16
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkOuch. That's a cliched retort. Especially when I have been so clear. Look. That is not what I am asking you about. I know and acknowledge that you believe that people 'are not saved by works'. I am asking you to confirm or deny that - in addition to "faith" - "good works" are also required in order for a believer to be "saved".
Which part of 'we are not saved by works' did you not understand?
21 Dec 16
Originally posted by FMFOf course they do not believe the Bible. What right do you have to say otherwise?
But your statement - [b]The answer is obviously no for anyone who believes the Bible - implies that you think anyone who disagrees with you in their interpretation of the Bible doesn't believe the Bible. That's the assertion I am saying is a bit silly because you know full well that there are people who believe in the Bible who disagree with you. What is silly about pointing this out?[/b]
Pot
21 Dec 16
Originally posted by FMFThat is because I believe that some people may come to faith 'on their deathbeds' and still be saved. Like the thief on the cross. They will obviously not be saved by their works.
You seem to be saying there must be "good works" on one hand (although you do not want to say it unequivocally), but, on the other, your take on the thief story suggests that there don't have to be "good works". I'll just go on my memory of what we talked about before. If it's not important to you to be clear and unequivocal when talking about your Christian faith, then that is both your prerogative and ~ it would seem ~ your chosen persona.
21 Dec 16
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkPlease can you biblically support your assertion that 'people with no faith can "occasionally" obey their conscience?' Isn't "occasionally" just an insertion of your own?
It says that people with no faith can occasionally obey their conscience. You made up the "good works" part. The question is does the occasional obedience to your conscience merit salvation. Obviously not.
When you have the time.
21 Dec 16
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeDid you see my response to your post earlier?
Please can you biblically support your assertion that 'people with no faith can "occasionally" obey their conscience?' Isn't "occasionally" just an insertion of your own?
When you have the time.
21 Dec 16
2 edits
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeNobody can obey their conscience all the time. If they could obey their consciences all the time they would be sinless. The Bible clearly says that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. So clearly nobody can obey their conscience all the time.
Please can you biblically support your assertion that 'people with no faith can "occasionally" obey their conscience?' Isn't "occasionally" just an insertion of your own?
When you have the time.
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeYou can know what the right thing is and do it when it moves you and not when it does not.
Please can you biblically support your assertion that 'people with no faith can "occasionally" obey their conscience?' Isn't "occasionally" just an insertion of your own?
When you have the time.
Belief is not faith, yet people who have faith believe. You can drive the speed limit when
you see the police monitoring the traffic speed. That doesn't mean you'll do the same thing
when there are no police in sight. Walking out your faith will be doing what you believe
regardless of if the police are there or not. An honest man will be one who believes that
the right thing to do is be honest, so if he finds a wallet with money and ID he will return
it. Someone else may do it if they know others are aware of their find to avoid being found
less than if the they did not turn in the wallet, but if they feel free to do as they will even
knowing the right thing may not stop them from keeping what is not theirs. Knowing or
believing the right thing isn't the same thing as walking out your faith, so if you ever find
yourself wishing you'd done the right things when the time was there to do it, or wishing
you had not done the wrong thing when the time was there to do it shows you that from
time to time or occasionally we fall short of what we know is true.
I do believe we are all people of faith, we just put it into different things.