Alpha and Omega: To whom does this title properly belong?
At Revelation 1:8, its owner is said to be God, the Almighty. In verse 11 according to KJ, that title is applied to one whose description thereafter shows him to be Jesus Christ. But scholars recognize the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 11 to be spurious, and so it does not appear in RS, NE, JB, NAB, Dy.
Many translations of Revelation into Hebrew recognize that the one described in verse 8 is Jehovah, and so they restore the personal name of God there. See NW, 1984 Reference edition.
Revelation 21:6, 7 indicates that Christians who are spiritual conquerors are to be ‘sons’ of the one known as the Alpha and the Omega. That is never said of the relationship of spirit-anointed Christians to Jesus Christ. Jesus spoke of them as his ‘brothers.’ (Heb. 2:11; Matt. 12:50; 25:40) But those ‘brothers’ of Jesus are referred to as “sons of God.” (Gal. 3:26; 4:6)
At Revelation 22:12, TEV inserts the name Jesus, so the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 13 is made to appear to apply to him. But the name Jesus does not appear there in Greek, and other translations do not include it.
At Revelation 22:13, the Alpha and Omega is also said to be “the first and the last,” which expression is applied to Jesus at Revelation 1:17, 18. Similarly, the expression “apostle” is applied both to Jesus Christ and to certain ones of his followers. But that does not prove that they are the same person or are of equal rank, does it? (Heb. 3:1) So the evidence points to the conclusion that the title “Alpha and Omega” applies to Almighty God, the Father, not to the Son.
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Originally posted by galveston75Revelation 22:16 does include the name Jesus in the Greek text and He
Alpha and Omega: To whom does this title properly belong?
At Revelation 1:8, its owner is said to be God, the Almighty. In verse 11 according to KJ, that title is applied to one whose description thereafter shows him to be Jesus Christ. But scholars recognize the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 11 to be spurious, and so it does not appear in R ...[text shortened]... conclusion that the title “Alpha and Omega” applies to Almighty God, the Father, not to the Son.
has just said (v. 12-13) that He is coming quickly and that He is Alpha and
Omega, the first and the last, etc. So there should be no doubt to any
one that Jesus is referring to himself when He makes these statements.
New World Translation
12“‘Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. 13I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. 14Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority [to go] to the trees of life may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates. 15Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone liking and carrying on a lie.’
16“‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to YOU people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star.’”
We are not looking for the Father to come quickly. It is the Son.
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Originally posted by RJHindsBut you say they are the same. Remember the trinity thing you believe? How can only one come when you say they are all the same? When does the Holy Spirit come or go or leave or arrive or whatever you think he does?
Revelation 22:16 does include the name Jesus in the Greek text and He
has just said (v. 12-13) that He is coming quickly and that He is Alpha and
Omega, the first and the last, etc. So there should be no doubt to any
one that Jesus is referring to himself when He makes these statements.
New World Translation
12“‘Look! I am coming quickly, and the r ...[text shortened]... the bright morning star.’”
We are not looking for the Father to come quickly. It is the Son.
Hummm, it almost sounds like they are different beings doesn't it?????????
ALPHA AND OMEGA
These are the names of the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet and are used as a title three times in the book of Revelation. The additional occurrence of this phrase in the King James rendering of Revelation 1:11, however, does not receive support from some of the oldest Greek manuscripts, including the Alexandrine, Sinaitic, and Codex Ephraemi rescriptus. It is, therefore, omitted in many modern translations.
While many commentators apply this title both to God and to Christ, a more careful examination of its use restricts its application to Jehovah God. The first verse of Revelation shows that the revelation was given originally by God and through Jesus Christ, hence the one speaking (through an angelic representative) at times is God himself, and at other times it is Christ Jesus. (Re 22:8) Thus Revelation 1:8 (RS) says: “‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God [“Jehovah God,” NW], who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” Although the preceding verse speaks of Christ Jesus, it is clear that in verse 8 the application of the title is to “the Almighty” God. In this regard Barnes’ Notes on the New Testament (1974) observes: “It cannot be absolutely certain that the writer meant to refer to the Lord Jesus specifically here . . . There is no real incongruity in supposing, also, that the writer here meant to refer to God as such.”
The title occurs again at Revelation 21:6, and the following verse identifies the speaker by saying: “Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son.” Inasmuch as Jesus referred to those who are joint heirs with him in his Kingdom as “brothers,” not “sons,” the speaker must be Jesus’ heavenly Father, Jehovah God.—Mt 25:40; compare Heb 2:10-12.
The final occurrence of the title is at Revelation 22:13, which states: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” It is evident that a number of persons are represented as speaking in this chapter of Revelation; verses 8 and 9 show that the angel spoke to John, verse 16 obviously applies to Jesus, the first part of verse 17 is credited to “the spirit and the bride,” and the one speaking in the latter part of verse 20 is manifestly John himself. “The Alpha and the Omega” of verses 12-15, therefore, may properly be identified as the same one who bears the title in the other two occurrences: Jehovah God. The expression, “Look! I am coming quickly,” in verse 12, does not require that these aforementioned verses apply to Jesus, inasmuch as God also speaks of himself as “coming” to execute judgment. (Compare Isa 26:21.) Malachi 3:1-6 speaks of a joint coming for judgment on the part of Jehovah and his “messenger of the covenant.”
The title “the Alpha and the Omega” carries the same thought as “the first and the last” and “the beginning and the end” when these terms are used with reference to Jehovah. Before him there was no Almighty God, and there will be none after him. He will bring to a successful conclusion the issue over Godship, forever vindicated as the one and only Almighty God.—Compare Isa 44:6.
Originally posted by jaywillYour God my be a mystery to you and you may enjoy that for some strange reason but I know exactly who and what my God Jehovah is. He is "ONE" God.
We can [b]enjoy and experience a mystery even though it is mysterious.
http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?id=%23%28%25%277%0A[/b]
Mark 12:30 & 32
Good News Translation (GNT)
30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.
32 The teacher of the Law said to Jesus,
Well done, Teacher! It is true, as you say, that only the Lord is God and that there is no other god but he.
Verse 30 is suggesting that we would know and love our God completely.........No mystery here.
Verse 32 says he is the only God and no others with him. Certianly not some strange multi headed God.
Originally posted by galveston75Jesus is the Son. He is not the Father. The Father, the Son, and the
But you say they are the same. Remember the trinity thing you believe? How can only one come when you say they are all the same? When does the Holy Spirit come or go or leave or arrive or whatever you think he does?
Hummm, it almost sounds like they are different beings doesn't it?????????
ALPHA AND OM ...[text shortened]... the issue over Godship, forever vindicated as the one and only Almighty God.—Compare Isa 44:6.
Holy Spirit are three different persons in the Godhead (The Trinity).
The Son is Jehovah of the Old Testament. The Father has never appeared
to man, He has sent His Son, who is the exact image of the Father to
appear to man. Jesus said, "For not even the Father judges anyone, but
has given all judgment to the Son, in order that all may honor the Son,
even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not
honor the Father who sent Him. Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears
My word and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not
come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Truly, truly, I
say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear the
voice of of the Son of God; and those who hear shall live. For just as the
Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in
Himself; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is
the Son of Man." (John 5:22-27 NASB)
Originally posted by galveston75The Trinity is not a strange multi-headed God. You need to re-read
Your God my be a mystery to you and you may enjoy that for some strange reason but I know exactly who and what my God Jehovah is. He is "ONE" God.
Mark 12:30 & 32
Good News Translation (GNT)
30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.
32 The teacher of the Law said t ...[text shortened]... 2 says he is the only God and no others with him. Certianly not some strange multi headed God.
the Christain creeds again, because your ignorance of them is showing
up.
Originally posted by galveston75Do you think the Jews know God completely?
Your God my be a mystery to you and you may enjoy that for some strange reason but I know exactly who and what my God Jehovah is. He is "ONE" God.
Mark 12:30 & 32
Good News Translation (GNT)
30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.
32 The teacher of the Law said t ...[text shortened]... 2 says he is the only God and no others with him. Certianly not some strange multi headed God.
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Originally posted by RJHindsI still really feel sorry for you and the other trinitarians. I honestly mean that. Mythology, paganism, Satan and just the phylosophies of man has screwed up this simple truth in the bible so much it's still hard for me to believe as old as I am that anyone still believes it.
Jesus is the Son. He is not the Father. The Father, the Son, and the
Holy Spirit are three different persons in the Godhead (The Trinity).
The Son is Jehovah of the Old Testament. The Father has never appeared
to man, He has sent His Son, who is the exact image of the Father to
appear to man. Jesus said, "For not even the Father judges anyone, but
h ...[text shortened]... He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is
the Son of Man." (John 5:22-27 NASB)
So much complete evidence of it's pagan origines, it still amazes me to see it taught.
I know you say it's not paganistic but no matter how you rearange it, explain it, play with words, throw tons of unexplainable complicated and almost un-ledgeable explinations...it's still a triune god based teaching that is not taught in the Bible.
The one true God is Jehovah and always has been. He is the Alpha and the Omega. He has always been and will always be the one and only "Almighty God" that created all things, including his Son Jesus.
The Holy Spirit is nothing more then the force God uses to accomplish his will no matter what it is. It's the force that he used to create all things. He has no fleshly body as we do but it would be like a human using his muscles to build a house. Nothing more.
So see the simple truth in the Bible of God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
Nothing like the pages and pages of rambling confusing explinations that some say explains the mystery of the trinity.
Originally posted by galveston75=================================
Your God my be a mystery to you and you may enjoy that for some strange reason but I know exactly who and what my God Jehovah is. He is "ONE" God.
Mark 12:30 & 32
Good News Translation (GNT)
30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.
32 The teacher of the Law said t ...[text shortened]... 2 says he is the only God and no others with him. Certianly not some strange multi headed God.
Your God my be a mystery to you and you may enjoy that for some strange reason but I know exactly who and what my God Jehovah is. He is "ONE" God.
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The word of God said " the mystery of the faith".
You got that? I didn't make it up to seek the approval of a heretic. The Bible said Christ is the mystery of God. (Col.2:2; 4:3)
Originally posted by jaywillOh ok..So your saying there are many things we'll never know that were written in the Bible that was a gift from God to man? Like what, the trinity? That's the only thing that's a mystery to me.
[b]=================================
Your God my be a mystery to you and you may enjoy that for some strange reason but I know exactly who and what my God Jehovah is. He is "ONE" God.
===============================================
The word of God said " the mystery of the faith".
You got that? I didn't make it up to seek the approval of a heretic. The Bible said Christ is the mystery of God. (Col.2:2; 4:3) [/b]
So this Bible was given to us by God but has mysteries in it that you think we don't understand? Hum...what a cruel trick by God then in your eyes? Right?
If so then I feel sorry for you that you view the Bible that way as I don't. It has everything in it we need to know our God and what he plans for us.... And it's all crystal clear if God allows you to see it..
Originally posted by galveston75Give me a break fella. You don't even fully understand your OWN created human life.
Oh ok..So your saying there are many things we'll never know that were written in the Bible that was a gift from God to man? Like what, the trinity? That's the only thing that's a mystery to me.
So this Bible was given to us by God but has mysteries in it that you think we don't understand? Hum...what a cruel trick by God then in your eyes? Right?
If ...[text shortened]... God and what he plans for us.... And it's all crystal clear if God allows you to see it..
I saw both my children be born. Do you think we understand everything about HUMAN life ? That birth was also a mystery.
Let me say it again because you probably forgot already. That the Triune God is mysterious does not mean we cannot experience God and enjoy God.
But for the record, even your OWN human life is quite a bit a mystery to you too.