Originally posted by galveston75It has become increasingly clearer to many here that you don't even bother to read our posts before you spam us with some irrelevent cut and paste job. I posted the scriptures that Jaywill referenced, sort of blows your entire argument right out of the water
Oh ok..So your saying there are many things we'll never know that were written in the Bible that was a gift from God to man? Like what, the trinity? That's the only thing that's a mystery to me.
So this Bible was given to us by God but has mysteries in it that you think we don't understand? Hum...what a cruel trick by God then in your eyes? Right?
If ...[text shortened]... God and what he plans for us.... And it's all crystal clear if God allows you to see it..
(emphasis mine)
Col 2:2 that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God’s mystery, that is, Christ Himself,
Col 4:3 praying at the same time for us as well, that God will open up to us a door for the word, so that we may speak forth the mystery of Christ, for which I have also been imprisoned.
Originally posted by DowardI read every post here. I don't know why you think that but your wrong.
It has become increasingly clearer to many here that you don't even bother to read our posts before you spam us with some irrelevent cut and paste job. I posted the scriptures that Jaywill referenced, sort of blows your entire argument right out of the water
(emphasis mine)
Col 2:2 that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in lo ...[text shortened]... so that we may speak forth the [b]mystery of Christ, for which I have also been imprisoned.[/b]
Anyway when these scriptures were written, yes they were a mystery. John and others that pinned the Bible many times had no idea what they meant.
But the point you and the other posters here are missing is the Bible also makes it very clear that as time went on these mysteries would become clearer and clearer with understanding. At some point in our history and in studying the Bible and with the most important point, God letting us understand, eventually all would be known that is written.
Let me make this crystal clear. What is written. I never said we would at some point know all there is about God and Jesus or even the angels. But what is "written" in the Bible.
Again this book is for us to read, learn, apply to our life's now and in the future. It was not given to us to partially understand. At some point if God allows us, we can completely understand all that is in it. Other wise what would be the purpose of having a book given to us by God if we can't learn all that's in it??????????
But with this trinity issue that not one person on earth can explain, it's not in the Bible and as as result of that doctrine being made up by Satan many centuries ago and with the Bible saying he is the one confusing mankind spiritually, this confusing doctrine fits right in with a satanic influance, not the "Crystal clear truths that are in the Bible."
Originally posted by galveston75There are many here who have explained, you have refused to listen.
I read every post here. I don't know why you think that but your wrong.
Anyway when these scriptures were written, yes they were a mystery. John and others that pinned the Bible many times had no idea what they meant.
But the point you and the other posters here are missing is the Bible also makes it very clear that as time went on these mysteries wo ...[text shortened]... ight in with a satanic influance, not the "Crystal clear truths that are in the Bible."
The trinity in a nutshell: Jesus is God, we commune with Christ and experience him through his Holy Spirit.
Romans 9:1 I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit— 2 I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race, 4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised!Amen.
(emphasis mine)
Originally posted by DowardSo what in these scriptures here is explaing the trinity that your quoting? Perhaps the translation is confusing you. Try this one:
There are many here who have explained, you have refused to listen.
The trinity in a nutshell: Jesus is God, we commune with Christ and experience him through his Holy Spirit.
Romans 9:1 I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit— 2 I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could ...[text shortened]... human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised!Amen.
(emphasis mine)[/b]
Romans 9:1-5
Good News Translation (GNT)
Romans 9
God and His People
1 I am speaking the truth; I belong to Christ and I do not lie. My conscience, ruled by the Holy Spirit, also assures me that I am not lying.
2 when I say how great is my sorrow, how endless the pain in my heart3 for my people, my own flesh and blood! For their sake I could wish that I myself were under God's curse and separated from Christ.4 They are God's people; he made them his children and revealed his glory to them; he made his covenants with them and gave them the Law; they have the true worship; they have received God's promises;5 they are descended from the famous Hebrew ancestors; and Christ, as a human being, belongs to their race. May God, who rules over all, be praised forever! Amen.
Jehovah is Almighty God. Jesus is never called that in the Bible. No where does it say the Holy spirit is a God much less Almighty God. No where in the Bible does it say Jehovah and Jesus are the same being.
The fact of the matter is the Jehovah's Witnesses is an organization fraught (look that G-75) with faulty and confusing doctrines not of the bible or God and this has not changed since it's foundation. You try to use the argument that well the earlier brothers did not have as much light well that was just over a 100 years ago and the bible had already been penned and completed like 1800-1900 years before so this is a lame excuse. Also there were no JW's before the late 1800's there was no weird whacky organization in Brooklyn NY LOL Good that you guys do good deeds and all but so what?
Manny
Originally posted by KunsooWhen Christianity was fabricated the compilers got some things correct because of the probability factor which must be taken in to account.
I'm not talking about the authority conveyed as is the subject of the other thread. I'm referencing the doctrine that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all one entity. Is there anything in the Bible which is explicit on the subject?
Jehovah's Witnesses say no, as do a few other Christian sects. I've seen obscure references, but you would think that ...[text shortened]... esus is God, you cannot have grace.
Thoughts? Other passages I'm missing?
So when they talk of the Trinity what they are trying to say is this...........
God is divided up into 3 aspect: the Father Son and Holy Ghost and what does that mean?
It means that the father is the Supreme Personality of Godhead or Supreme Deity.
The Son means the soul of each living being which is a spiritual being the same as God.........just like the sun ray is the same as the sun but its smaller.
The Holy Ghost means the all pervading spirit of God or his omnipresent feature.
This division of God is actually true but often misunderstood.
Originally posted by menace71It's confusing to you Manny because it doesn't agree with the doctrine of the trinity. As long as you are stuck with that thought in your head and heart there is nothing I can say or show you that you will not agree with.
The fact of the matter is the Jehovah's Witnesses is an organization fraught (look that G-75) with faulty and confusing doctrines not of the bible or God and this has not changed since it's foundation. You try to use the argument that well the earlier brothers did not have as much light well that was just over a 100 years ago and the bible had already been ...[text shortened]... ization in Brooklyn NY LOL Good that you guys do good deeds and all but so what?
Manny
You say we haven't changed but your completely wrong. Things have changed even since my mother started studying that I've seen myself. And it's all been good as we have tried by the direction from God to seperate ourselves from any false teachings that religions have stubbornly held on to. We always prove scripture with scripture and turn away from false teachings, no matter how much we get blasted as we do here on this forum.. Jesus said that would happenand and if it didn't then that would mean one should search out why.
And we say we didn't have the correct understandings on some things many years ago because we didn't. But they knew many things their churches were teaching were wrong. But as with learning anything it takes time. You did not become a car expert overnight.
Originally posted by DasaWhere exactly in the Bible does it say God is divided into three aspects? I've never seen that but it must be there to help explain the trinity. Could you show me?
When Christianity was fabricated the compilers got some things correct because of the probability factor which must be taken in to account.
So when they talk of the Trinity what they are trying to say is this...........
God is divided up into 3 aspect: the Father Son and Holy Ghost and what does that mean?
It means that the father is the Supreme Pe ...[text shortened]... od or his omnipresent feature.
This division of God is actually true but often misunderstood.
Originally posted by galveston75What you say is an absolute LIE. I have shown you over and over where
So what in these scriptures here is explaing the trinity that your quoting? Perhaps the translation is confusing you. Try this one:
Romans 9:1-5
Good News Translation (GNT)
Romans 9
God and His People
1 I am speaking the truth; I belong to Christ and I do not lie. My conscience, ruled by the Holy Spirit, also assures me that I am not lying.
...[text shortened]... ch less Almighty God. No where in the Bible does it say Jehovah and Jesus are the same being.
the Holy Spirit is referred to as God. How could Jesus be the only begotten
Son of God and not be God, just as His Father is God? I have also shown
you where the Son of God is called God. Even the Father called the Son,
God and told the angels to worship Him. I know the Son is called mighty
God and God is called Almighty God. So what difference does it make to
whom Almighty God is referring to. Maybe, it refers to all three persons of
the Trinity collectively. If it refers to Jehovah as you seem to think, then
that is the Son. If it refers to the Father, then that does not diminish the
Son because the Father has given all authority to the Son. If you would
stop putting your head up your rear end, we would not have to keep
repeating this, in order for us, to help you to understand the truth.
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75It's more than just the trinity but your going to believe what you will. I want you to think about this people were reading the bible long before your organization existed. I think the elitist mentality that you come off with is boggling that your organization is the only true organization and no one else can Know truth?
It's confusing to you Manny because it doesn't agree with the doctrine of the trinity. As long as you are stuck with that thought in your head and heart there is nothing I can say or show you that you will not agree with.
You say we haven't changed but your completely wrong. Things have changed even since my mother started studying that I've seen myse But as with learning anything it takes time. You did not become a car expert overnight.
Reasons why I will never ever be a Jehovah
#1 The history of the organization
#2 Blood transfusion doctrine
#3 Faulty translation of the bible
#4 (A big one) The JW's deny Christ his rightful place (But every knee will bow and confess Jesus Christ is Lord)
#5 Don't want to be a door to door sales man of a petty rag
Manny
3 edits
Originally posted by galveston75===================================
So what in these scriptures here is explaing the trinity that your quoting? Perhaps the translation is confusing you. Try this one:
Romans 9:1-5
Good News Translation (GNT)
Romans 9
God and His People
1 I am speaking the truth; I belong to Christ and I do not lie. My conscience, ruled by the Holy Spirit, also assures me that I am not lying.
ch less Almighty God. No where in the Bible does it say Jehovah and Jesus are the same being.
No where in the Bible does it say Jehovah and Jesus are the same being.
==================================
1901 American Standard Bible -published and distributed by Watchtower Society - (probably prior to New World "Translation" )
Jeremiah 32:18 - " ... the great, the mighty God, Jehovah of hosts is his name ..."
Isaiah 9:6 " For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given .... and his name shall be called Mighty God, Everlasting Father ..."
The child born is called "Mighty God" and Jehovah is "the mighty God."
Originally posted by menace71When you start to connect the dots on all these subjects and leave behind man made doctrines that "don't exist" in the Bible, then you'll see what we are trying to say.
It's more than just the trinity but your going to believe what you will. I want you to think about this people were reading the bible long before your organization existed. I think the elitist mentality that you come off with is boggling that your organization is the only true organization and no one else can Know truth?
Reasons why I will never ever ...[text shortened]... Jesus Christ is Lord)
#5 Don't want to be a door to door sales man of a petty rag
Manny
Almost always in the past God's true followers have been a small group of people. Remember the flood? Only 8 were approved by God and lived. Use that as an example when you say we're wrong and all the other so called Christian religions are right.
And if even one of them is right, why are you not with them? Why are you out on your own and not 100% involved? Maybe you see something wrong in their teachings too? So don't condemn us as you seem to condemn all others too by your actions.
Originally posted by jaywillJeremiah 32:18
[b]===================================
No where in the Bible does it say Jehovah and Jesus are the same being.
==================================
1901 American Standard Bible -published and distributed by Watchtower Society - (probably prior to New World "Translation" )
Jeremiah 32:18 - " ... the great, the mighty God, Jehova ...[text shortened]...
The child born is called [b]"Mighty God" and Jehovah is "the mighty God."[/b]
Good News Translation (GNT)
18 You have shown constant love to thousands, but you also punish people for the sins of their parents. You are a great and powerful God; you are the Lord Almighty.
I can post other translations that say "Almighty" when describing Jehovah. Jesus is never described as being "Almighty."
Jesus is a Mighty God but never the Almighty. Pay attention to this and you will learn who the bible is speaking of.