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Originally posted by RJHindsYou really don't get what "only begotten son" means do you? In fact you don't seem to understand what the meaning of "son" or "creation" is as the terms are all applied to Jesus.
What you say is an absolute LIE. I have shown you over and over where
the Holy Spirit is referred to as God. How could Jesus be the only begotten
Son of God and not be God, just as His Father is God? I have also shown
you where the Son of God is called God. Even the Father called the Son,
God and told the angels to worship Him. I know the Son is cal ...[text shortened]... we would not have to keep
repeating this, in order for us, to help you to understand the truth.
” Jesus’ being called the “only-begotten Son” (Joh 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1Jo 4:9) does not mean that the other spirit creatures produced were not God’s sons, for they are called sons as well. (Ge 6:2, 4; Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:4-7) However, by virtue of his being the sole direct creation of his Father, the firstborn Son was unique, different from all others of God’s sons, all of whom were created or begotten by Jehovah through that firstborn Son. So “the Word” was Jehovah’s “only-begotten Son” in a particular sense, even as Isaac was Abraham’s “only-begotten son” in a particular sense (his father already having another son but not by his wife Sarah).—Heb 11:17; Ge 16:15.
Jehovah’s first creation was his “only-begotten Son” (Joh 3:16), “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Re 3:14) This one, “the firstborn of all creation,” was used by Jehovah in creating all other things, those in the heavens and those upon the earth, “the things visible and the things invisible.” (Col 1:15-17) John’s inspired testimony concerning this Son, the Word, is that “all things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence,” and the apostle identifies the Word as Jesus Christ, who had become flesh. (Joh 1:1-4, 10, 14, 17) As wisdom personified, this One is represented as saying, “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way,” and he tells of his association with God the Creator as Jehovah’s “master worker.” (Pr 8:12, 22-31) In view of the close association of Jehovah and his only-begotten Son in creative activity and because that Son is “the image of the invisible God” (Col 1:15; 2Co 4:4), it was evidently to His only-begotten Son and master worker that Jehovah spoke in saying, “Let us make man in our image.”—Ge 1:26.
The meaning of only begotten. "Only begotten" is from the Greek monogenes. This word is used nine times in the Greek New Testament. The word is a compound word, mono, meaning only, and gennesis, meaning birth. "Only begotten" (monogenes) is used five times by John, three by Luke, and once by the writer of Hebrews. Luke used the word to describe the widow's son, "only son of his mother" (Lk. 7: 12, see 8: 42, 9: 38). The writer of Hebrews said Abraham "offered up his only begotten son" (Heb. 11: 17).
Only begotten as applied to Jesus. The scriptures teach that God's people are "sons of God" (Rom. 8: 14). Modernists contend that Jesus was simply another son of God. Not so! Jesus' Sonship was understood as indicative of deity (Jn. 10: 36, 38). Monogenes is used of Jesus' Sonship. Jesus is the "only begotten Son" (I Jn. 4: 9). "Single of its kind," comments Thayer, "…used of Christ, denotes the only Son of God or who in the sense in which he himself is the Son of God has no brethren…he is of nature or essentially Son of God, and so in a very different sense from that in which men are made by him children of God" (Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon, pgs. 417, 418). Beloved, God's people are adopted "sons of God," Jesus is the only Son of God by nature (cp. Rom. 8: 14-16).
As God's monogenes Jesus enjoyed unique glory (Jn. 1: 14). The only begotten declared God (Jn. 1: 18). Jesus being of the same essential nature as the Father could reveal God as no other could (Jn. 14: 8-11). The only begotten is the ultimate expression of God's love (Jn. 3: 16, I Jn. 4: 9). Moreover, we must believe in the only begotten Son of God (Jn. 3: 18, 16).
Hence, Jesus is uniquely and singularly the Son of God - the only one of his kind.
Originally posted by galveston75Your final paragraph is a lie, and it has been pointed out over and over again. The reason you only have an "earthly hope" is because you do not know Jesus as Lord. When you accept that he is God and commune with him with an indwelling of his Holy Spirit you will see those lies for what they are. Here is another translation of that Romans passage. (Funny... this is the first time I believe you have used the GNT)
So what in these scriptures here is explaing the trinity that your quoting? Perhaps the translation is confusing you. Try this one:
Romans 9:1-5
Good News Translation (GNT)
Romans 9
God and His People
1 I am speaking the truth; I belong to Christ and I do not lie. My conscience, ruled by the Holy Spirit, also assures me that I am not lying.
...[text shortened]... ch less Almighty God. No where in the Bible does it say Jehovah and Jesus are the same being.
Romans 9
God’s Selection of Israel
1 With Christ as my witness, I speak with utter truthfulness. My conscience and the Holy Spirit confirm it. 2 My heart is filled with bitter sorrow and unending grief 3 for my people, my Jewish brothers and sisters. I would be willing to be forever cursed—cut off from Christ!—if that would save them. 4 They are the people of Israel, chosen to be God’s adopted children. God revealed his glory to them. He made covenants with them and gave them his law. He gave them the privilege of worshiping him and receiving his wonderful promises. 5 Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are their ancestors, and Christ himself was an Israelite as far as his human nature is concerned. And he is God, the one who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. NLT
Originally posted by galveston75Here is another translation (NASB)
Jeremiah 32:18
Good News Translation (GNT)
18 You have shown constant love to thousands, but you also punish people for the sins of their parents. You are a great and powerful God; you are the Lord Almighty.
I can post other translations that say "Almighty" when describing Jehovah. Jesus is never described as being "Almighty."
Jesus is a Mighty ...[text shortened]... t never the Almighty. Pay attention to this and you will learn who the bible is speaking of.
Jer.32:18 who shows lovingkindness to thousands, but repays the iniquity of fathers into the bosom of their children after them, O great and mighty God. The LORD of hosts is His name;
notice LORD or YHWH is refered to as "mighty God"
also: Psalm 50:1The Mighty One, God, the LORD, has spoken, (LORD is YHWH)
And summoned the earth from the rising of the sun to its setting.
Is 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.(NASB)
Jer 20: 11 But Jehovah is with me as a mighty one and a terrible: therefore my persecutors shall stumble, and they shall not prevail; they shall be utterly put to shame, because they have not dealt wisely, even with an everlasting dishonor which shall never be forgotten.
(ASV)
emphasis and italics mine
To say that God is never refered to as "mighty" but only as "almighty" is false, a lie and an evil deception. Accept Christ as your Lord and saviour and as your God, allow him to dwell within you through his Holy Spirit and know truth for the first time.
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Originally posted by galveston75Yes I know the meaning of "begotten", "son", "creation", and "procreate".
You really don't get what "only begotten son" means do you? In fact you don't seem to understand what the meaning of "son" or "creation" is as the terms are all applied to Jesus.
” Jesus’ being called the “only-begotten Son” (Joh 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1Jo 4:9) does not mean that the other spirit creatures produced were not God’s sons, for they are calle uely and singularly the Son of God - the only one of his kind.
Since you seem to have some trouble with their meaning, let us look in
a dictionary. I will use Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary.
1. beget (begat, begot, begotten) - to procreate as the father: SIRE.
2. procreate - to beget or bring forth offspring: reproduce.
3. son - 1. a: a male offspring esp. of human beings b: a male adopted
child c: a male descendant 2. capitalized Son: the second person of the
Trinity.
4. create - to bring into existence.
Jesus said, "For God so loved the world that He gave His ONLY begotten
Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting
life." (John 3:16)
The others that are called "sons of God" are not "begotten" of God. The
Father only has ONE begotten Son. The others are adopted just as we
will become adopted sons of God. The Son of God was begotten before
anything was created because the Holy Bible clearly states that everything,
that was made, was created by Him. The Son of God was not created, but
begotten by God the Father and the only one to be begotten by God the
Father.
The Son of God began the creations of God. The phrase, "beginning of
the creation of God" does not mean He was created by the Father.
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Originally posted by galveston75=====================================
“Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way,” and he tells of his association with God the Creator as Jehovah’s “master worker.” (Pr 8:12, 22-31)
======================================
"Jehovah POSSESSED me in the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. I was set up from eternity, From the beginning, before the earth was." (Prov. 8:22,23 Recovery Version)
The word possessed does not mean that God created wisdom at the beginning but owned wisdom.
And if Wisdom is Christ in Proverbs 8, HOW would God have the Wisdom to create or "produce" Wisdom if God had NONE beforehand ?
Necessarily, the Wisdom of God must be His possession for as long as God was - which is from eternity.
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Originally posted by RJHindsWow. Amazing how you can read that when it clearly says Jesus is the "Only Begotten" son of God or Jehovah. Even the descriptions from the dictionary clearly explains what begotten means but yet you somehow twist what you wrote yourself.
Yes I know the meaning of "begotten", "son", "creation", and "procreate".
Since you seem to have some trouble with their meaning, let us look in
a dictionary. I will use Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary.
1. beget (begat, begot, begotten) - to procreate as the father: SIRE.
2. procreate - to beget or bring forth offspring: reproduce.
3. beginning of
the creation of God" does not mean He was created by the Father.
And it still completely amazes me that you should know what the word "Son" means in any language on this planet but then when it comes to Jesus it somehow changes the meaning to someone equal in all aspects including being in existance forever and not having a beginning. How do you possibly not see the problem here with the Bible usinmg the word Son? And why isn't a term like son or cousin or whatever used for the Holy Spirit? Must not be related I guess.
And according to your Bible at Prov 8:22:
Proverbs 8:22
Good News Translation (GNT)
22 (A)The Lord created me first of all,
the first of his works, long ago.
So see here in your Bible it says cleary in the english language that you speak today is that Jesus was (((((created))))) and was the first of all (((((creation)))))!
Do you see the words creation and created here or are they something you have no comprehinsion of?
Please answer this as I see no way that would be conviencing that this is wrong and does not mean what it says. Jesus was created and was the first thing created..................
Do you deny this scripture and still say Jesus is God?
Originally posted by galveston75Proverbs 8 is a praise of wisdom and it states in part, "The Lord possessed
Wow. Amazing how you can read that when it clearly says Jesus is the "Only Begotten" son of God or Jehovah. Even the descriptions from the dictionary clearly explains what begotten means but yet you somehow twist what you wrote yourself.
And it still completely amazes me that you should know what the word "Son" means in any language on this planet but ...[text shortened]... st thing created..................
Do you deny this scripture and still say Jesus is God?
me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. From everlasting
I was established, from the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth."
(Proverbs 8:22-23 NASB) So it was the Lord Jesus that possessed wisdom
from everlasting times before He created anything. For it was the Lord
Jesus that made the earth, verse 26. See John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16.
Originally posted by RJHindsOMG... I give up. You quote a scripture that clearly says who Jesus is, what he did and you still contradict yourself and have no clue your doing it.
Proverbs 8 is a praise of wisdom and it states in part, "The Lord possessed
me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. From everlasting
I was established, from the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth."
(Proverbs 8:22-23 NASB) So it was the Lord Jesus that possessed wisdom
from everlasting times before He created anything. For it was the Lord
Jesus that made the earth, verse 26. See John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16.
Do you not see the word "beginning" in your quote? How about the word "before"?
Jesus did not exist "before" God's works. Jesus was the "beginning" of God's works.
How about the word "established"? Jesus was "established" or came to be at the beginning of God's creations.
Still no clue as your stating this is not Jesus it's speaking of? If not Jesus, as this scripture is completely and totally speaking of, then who? John, Robert, Jane, Lisa??????????? Who?
It's all right here in your statement but yet you don't see it. How can that be?
And the point of Jesus himself creating has been discussed completely so you didn't understand that then so no sense in me reposting it again. Sorry you didn't get that.
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Originally posted by galveston75The Son of God is said to have created all things that were created, and
OMG... I give up. You quote a scripture that clearly says who Jesus is, what he did and you still contradict yourself and have no clue your doing it.
Do you not see the word "beginning" in your quote? How about the word "before"?
Jesus did not exist "before" God's works. Jesus was the "beginning" of God's works.
How about the word "established"? d that then so no sense in me reposting it again. Sorry you didn't get that.
therefore, since He could not have been one of those things that were
created, else He would have had to created Himself, which is illogical.
God the Father begat the Son. God the Father did not create the Son.
It was the Son that began and did all the creating as the Holy Bible says.
P.S. You as a father do not create your son, you beget your son.
Originally posted by RJHindsAre you arguing over chickens and eggs?
The Son of God is said to have created all things that were created, and
therefore, since He could not have been one of those things that were
created, else He would have had to created Himself, which is illogical.
God the Father begat the Son. God the Father did not create the Son.
It was the Son that began and did all the creating as the Holy Bible says.
P.S. You as a father do not create your son, you beget your son.
Originally posted by wolfgang59No it has nothing to do with chickens and eggs. You would not understand
Are you arguing over chickens and eggs?
without going back and reading all the posts on several threads with the
two Jehovah's Witnessess and myself and a couple other people on the
topic of the Trinity of God.
Originally posted by RJHindsLol @ 'illogical'
The Son of God is said to have created all things that were created, and
therefore, since He could not have been one of those things that were
created, else He would have had to created Himself, which is illogical.
God the Father begat the Son. God the Father did not create the Son.
It was the Son that began and did all the creating as the Holy Bible says.
P.S. You as a father do not create your son, you beget your son.
Originally posted by RJHindsWhat????? So far is the craziest explination you've come up with. You are totally lost here aren't you?
The Son of God is said to have created all things that were created, and
therefore, since He could not have been one of those things that were
created, else He would have had to created Himself, which is illogical.
God the Father begat the Son. God the Father did not create the Son.
It was the Son that began and did all the creating as the Holy Bible says.
P.S. You as a father do not create your son, you beget your son.
I can't wait to see what you come up with next as this is actually becoming my daily entertainment.