Originally posted by RJHindsMakes no sense buddy. The first part of your statement is correct then you totally contradict yourself half way thru and you don't even know it...
I understand perfectly well that the Son of God is not the Father.
I am not trying to convince you that the Son is the Father, that is
ridiculous. For us humans, when a father begets a son, it is done
through the mother. The son may be in the image of the father;
but he is still not the father and they are both human. That is,
man begets man in a fl ...[text shortened]... to the glory of God the Father."
So His name is superior to every name including Jehovah.
Originally posted by jaywill"The Word became flesh" (John 1:14) This speaks of God passing through a process of incarnation.
The entire discussion is moot for several reasons. The most important being that Christ is not the raw Jehovah but the processed Jehovah.
Christ is Jehovah gone through a process in order to mingle with man and be dispensed into man.
[b]"The Word became flesh" (John 1:14) This speaks of God passing through a process of incarnation.
"The ...[text shortened]... God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, is firmly established in the Bible.
Talking of Jesus and no one else. Does not apply to Jehovah at all. Jesus is called the "Word" many times. Jehovah is not the word. Only Jesus is as he was the spokesman for Jehovah. If he was a spokesman for himself, the term "Word" would not make sense. Right?
I'll comment on the other scriptures later as I heading off to dinner.
Christians do pray to the Son and through the spirit and to the father 🙂 all the same.
Sorry it's like trying to fully comprehend a black Hole (One of God's creations) We know there there just like we know God shows himself in a triune way hard to comprehend but oh well. Just because something can't be fully explained does NOT negate it at all.
Manny
Manny
Originally posted by menace71Jesus said to pray thru him, not to him. John 14:6 explains this. Again Manny Jesus never once in the Bible ever told us to pray to him. So God the Father, Jehovah, will not hear any prayers made in any other fashion.
Christians do pray to the Son and through the spirit and to the father 🙂 all the same.
Sorry it's like trying to fully comprehend a black Hole (One of God's creations) We know there there just like we know God shows himself in a triune way hard to comprehend but oh well. Just because something can't be fully explained does NOT negate it at all.
Manny
Manny
John 14:6
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
6 Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
Referring to Jesus’ unique position, the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature says: “The object of prayer is God alone, through Jesus Christ as the Mediator. All supplications, therefore, to saints or angels are not only useless, but blasphemous. All worship of the creature, however exalted that creature is, is idolatry, and is strictly prohibited in the sacred law of God.”
Another reason you disussion is moot is because of verses 10-12:
"And, You in the beginning, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of Your hands. They will perish, but You remain perpetually, and they all will become old like a garment. And like a mantle you will roll them up, like a garment they will also be changed; but You are the same, and Your years will not end."
This is speaking of Jehovah only. Jehovah has always been and will always be immortal. Jesus his son was not immortal at this time of creation and was given immortality by his Father Jehovah as a reward for staying faithful until death as a human once he returned toi heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:42
New Living Translation (NLT)
42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever.
Jesus died and as a result of his spiritual resurrection, he is now immortal.
So this scripture cannot apply to Jesus as he was not immortal at that time. None of God's creations were immortal at that time....
Originally posted by galveston75===========================
"The Word became flesh" (John 1:14) This speaks of God passing through a process of incarnation.
Talking of Jesus and no one else. Does not apply to Jehovah at all. Jesus is called the "Word" many times. Jehovah is not the word. Only Jesus is as he was the spokesman for Jehovah. If he was a spokesman for himself, the term "Word" would not make sense. Right?
I'll comment on the other scriptures later as I heading off to dinner.
Talking of Jesus and no one else. Does not apply to Jehovah at all. Jesus is called the "Word" many times. Jehovah is not the word. Only Jesus is as he was the spokesman for Jehovah. If he was a spokesman for himself, the term "Word" would not make sense. Right?
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John 1:14 is talking about the Word. And the Word was God (1:1).
John did not need to come down to the Kingdom Hall and get clarification on what he wrote.
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Originally posted by galveston75I thought I told you before that Jesus referred to Himself as "I AM" when
"The Word became flesh" (John 1:14) This speaks of God passing through a process of incarnation.
Talking of Jesus and no one else. Does not apply to Jehovah at all. Jesus is called the "Word" many times. Jehovah is not the word. Only Jesus is as he was the spokesman for Jehovah. If he was a spokesman for himself, the term "Word" would not make sense. Right?
I'll comment on the other scriptures later as I heading off to dinner.
talking to the Pharisees. Maybe, it was Robbie. You do understand that
I believe "Jehovah" or "I AM" is the name the Son of God gave to Moses
to call Him don't you? Jesus said that no man has seen the Father at any
time, that is because it was the Son of God that appeared to Moses and
spoke from the midst of the burning bush and on the mountain. It was
also the Son of God that appeared to Abraham as the one called God and
the Angel of the Lord.
Originally posted by galveston75Don't you understand that Jesus is the mediator because He is both man
Jesus said to pray thru him, not to him. John 14:6 explains this. Again Manny Jesus never once in the Bible ever told us to pray to him. So God the Father, Jehovah, will not hear any prayers made in any other fashion.
John 14:6
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
6 Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the ...[text shortened]... ver exalted that creature is, is idolatry, and is strictly prohibited in the sacred law of God.”
and God?
Originally posted by RJHindsOh man!!!! Unbelieveable.
Don't you understand that Jesus is the mediator because He is both man
and God?
Jesus is no longer a man. Flesh cannot live in heaven. He died "in the flesh but was raised in spirit". I know you've read that scripture but you must not understand it. Why?
He is not and never will be God Almighty. No where in the Bible does it ever call Jesus, God Almighty. Why do you not understand that very simple fact?
A mediator is a go between two people or persons or governments, etc. He is our mediator to God just as the High Priest were between man and God before Jesus.
If he was God there would be no need for a mediator. Do you not get that?
I can tell I could show you over and over and over these clear scriptures that state these facts but you still don't see.
Originally posted by RJHindsLol....He is the FATHER and the Father of Jesus his SON!!!!!!! A father and son are not ever the same being.
I think you must still be under the impression that Jehovah is the Father.
Jehovah is the Son of God not the Father.
One reason for this continuing confusion you have is because Jehovah's name has been removed from YOUR bible. You condemn our Bible but ours has his name in it where it should be. Perhaps if you really wanted to correctly know who he is you should get a better Bible that honors God with his name. In fact your disrespecting the most important being in the universe but using a bible that is completely dishonoring our God.....
From the Catholic encyclopedia: Jehovah occurs more frequently than any other Divine name. The Concordances of Furst ("Vet. Test. Concordantiae", Leipzig, 1840) and Mandelkern ("Vet. Test. Concordantiae", Leipzig, 1896) do not exactly agree as to the number of its occurrences; but in round numbers it is found in the Old Testament 6000 times, either alone or in conjunction with another Divine name. The Septuagint and the Vulgate render the name generally by "Lord" (Kyrios, Dominus), a translation of Adonai — usually substituted for Jehovah in reading
Originally posted by galveston75If you believe the Catholic Encyclopedia is correct, why do you disreguard
Lol....He is the FATHER and the Father of Jesus his SON!!!!!!! A father and son are not ever the same being.
One reason for this continuing confusion you have is because Jehovah's name has been removed from YOUR bible. You condemn our Bible but ours has his name in it where it should be. Perhaps if you really wanted to correctly know who he is you shou ...[text shortened]... " (Kyrios, Dominus), a translation of Adonai — usually substituted for Jehovah in reading
what it has to say on the Trinity? Don't forget that the Word before
becoming flesh was with God the Father and was also declared to be God.
(John 1:1) The Word is another name for the Son of God just like Jehovah
is another name for the Son of God. Jehovah is actually YHWH and the
shortened form is YH which also appears is the Hebrew Bible. In the
pronounciation the vowel "a" is added to produce Yah, as in HalleluYah,
meaning "praise Yah" or as is usually translated "praise the Lord". Jesus
is actually Yahshua, meaning "Yah saves". Yah has been replaced with
"Lord" and Jesus is Lord.
Originally posted by galveston75But don't you recall that Jesus was raised from the dead in His body.
Oh man!!!! Unbelieveable.
Jesus is no longer a man. Flesh cannot live in heaven. He died "in the flesh but was raised in spirit". I know you've read that scripture but you must not understand it. Why?
He is not and never will be God Almighty. No where in the Bible does it ever call Jesus, God Almighty. Why do you not understand that very simple fact? ...[text shortened]... ver and over and over these clear scriptures that state these facts but you still don't see.
After the resurrection He appeared to His disciples and said, "See my
hands and My feet that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit
does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." Notice also
that He did not say flesh and blood for He had given His blood as a
ransom for all that believe in Him.