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Originally posted by galveston75===================================
Oh man!!!! Unbelieveable.
Jesus is no longer a man. Flesh cannot live in heaven. He died "in the flesh but was raised in spirit". I know you've read that scripture but you must not understand it. Why?
He is not and never will be God Almighty. No where in the Bible does it ever call Jesus, God Almighty. Why do you not understand that very simple fact? ...[text shortened]... ver and over and over these clear scriptures that state these facts but you still don't see.
Oh man!!!! Unbelieveable.
Jesus is no longer a man.
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Where does the Bible say that Jesus is no longer a man ?
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Flesh cannot live in heaven. He died "in the flesh but was raised in spirit".
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There is a passage which says "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption" (1 cor. 15:50)
"The kingdom of God" is not synonomous to Heaven.
And even if "the kingdom of God" there does include heaven, Paul has just completed much explanation about how resurrection furnishes the saved with a glorified body (verses 35 - 44).
His discussion includes an explanation that transfiguration equips the resurrected man so that corruption does not inherit the kingdom of God.
"For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality" (v.53)
Whatever the new nature of the physical component of the saved it is still a body of glory. And it does not render them no longer men. We shall be like Him for we shall see Him even as He is (1 John 3:2).
Is He still the MAN Christ Jesus or not ? He surely is:
"For there *IS* one God and one Mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus." (1 Tim 2:5 my emphasis)
He is still a MAN. And we shall be LIKE HIM, ie. like "the man Christ Jesus". That is we who are to inherit the kingdom of God. He will make such inheritors be conformed to Himself:
"For our commonwealth exists in the heavens, from which also we eagerly await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, Who will transfigure the body of our humiliation to be conformed to the body of His glory ..." (Phil. 3:10,21)
Jesus Christ is for eternity a MAN with the body of His glory. And those to inherit the kingdom of God are also men and women with their flesh and blood bodies conformed to the body of His glory.
The second passage you allude to you should quote fully for a fuller understanding:
Christ also has suffered once for sins ... on the one hand being put to death in the flesh, but on the other, made alive in the Spirit; In which also He went and proclaimed toe the spirits in prison, who had formerly disobeyed when the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah ..." ( See 1 Peter 3:18,19)
This passage DOES NOT say that Jesus is no longer a man.
This passage also DOES NOT even say that He resurrected without flesh and blood.
The state in which "Christ ... was made alive in Spirit" speaks of the power of His being WHILE still physically deceased - "IN WHICH He went to the spirits in prison ...".
The passage is about what Christ did while still in Hades or the realm of the dead. The state "in which" He was made alive in the Spirit is the state in which He announced certain things to the spirits in Hades. This announcing to these spirits is PRIOR to His physcial resurrection.
Death renders man very weak. But in the case of Christ, He was put to death in the flesh, but while dead was made alive with power to go about in Hades, the realm of death, to make announcements and proclamations as He saw fit. The Spirit in verse 18 as the essence of Christ's divinity is the realm in which He was very active, made alive, and powerful before physical resurrection.
The spirits here to whom Christ made proclamation are the fallen angels who in the days of Noah tried to destroy God's plan for man. While Christ was physically dead, in the essence of His divinity, He went to those disobedient fallen angels and proclaimed God's victory in Christ over their plots.
This verse cannot be used to teach that Jesus Christ is no longer a man.
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I know you've read that scripture but you must not understand it.
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I just explained something about this passage to you.
You are speaking with me right now.
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Why?
He is not and never will be God Almighty. No where in the Bible does it ever call Jesus, God Almighty. Why do you not understand that very simple fact?
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You previously admitted that Christ was Almighty in upholding all things by the word of His power.
Now you have TWO Almighties. You have Jehovah the Almighty. And you also have Christ Who you say is almighty. You are inching closer to an admission that you cannot avoid the teaching that Christ is Jehovah God incarnate.
Besides, it has been pointed out to you that Jehovah is the Almighty God as well as the Mighty God.
Psalm 50:1 - "The Mighty One, God, Jehovah of hosts, Speaks and summons the earth ..."
Jehovah is the Mighty God (Psalm 50:1). And the child born in the prophecy of Isaiah 9:6 is called "Mighty God".
So the born child in Isaiah 9:6 is Jehovah the Mighty God.
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A mediator is a go between two people or persons or governments, etc. He is our mediator to God just as the High Priest were between man and God before Jesus.
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You cannot use Christ as Mediator to deny that Christ is God become a MAN.
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If he was God there would be no need for a mediator. Do you not get that?
I can tell I could show you over and over and over these clear scriptures that state these facts but you still don't see.
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You do not believe the New Testament. And you don't trust the New Testament.
You lean on your own understanding and reject the call to believe in Christ.
Thomas did not do this. But he called the resurrected Jesus his Lord and his God (John 20:28) .
The brothers of old were right to reject Arius's teaching as a heresy. And the biblical basis of the Trinity stands firm with the modern day Arians who call themselves "Jehovah's Witnesses".
You did not refute that the Christ coming on the clouds is "the Almighty" in Revelation 1:7,8.
How and why did Jesus allow Thomas to place his hands on Him to feel the holes and wounds?
www.biblegateway.com
John 20-26......
26 After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, “Peace be with you.” 27 Then He *said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.” 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”
Speaks for it's self
Manny
Originally posted by RJHindsFor g75, his pride has blinded him. Even though we give him the
But don't you recall that Jesus was raised from the dead in His body.
After the resurrection He appeared to His disciples and said, "See my
hands and My feet that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit
does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." Notice also
that He did not say flesh and blood for He had given His blood as a
ransom for all that believe in Him.
answer to the chess puzzle, he looks for a flaw in the answer and
thinks he sees one even though it isn't there.
Originally posted by menace71Now I know you don't read all the post as we've discussed this in length before....
How and why did Jesus allow Thomas to place his hands on Him to feel the holes and wounds?
www.biblegateway.com
John 20-26......
26 After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, “Peace be with you.” 27 Then He *said to Thomas, “Reach here with your ...[text shortened]... believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”
Speaks for it's self
Manny
The Bible says he was "raised in Spirit" so you must be calling the Bible a book of lies then. Are you? But if you don't agree with that then there must be an explination..Right? Are you willing to learn or stay stuck in the darkness?
Have not spirit beings, angels, not materialized before in the past? Did they not eat food with Abraham? Did they not have their feet washed? Have they not worn clothes? Did they not have relations with women and produce off spring?
So if angels can do that why could Jesus not materialize flesh to be touched? This was simply a display by Jesus to prove who he was. And it really couldn't have been human as we are because if he were with real flesh and with that wound was still open, he would have died again by bleeding to death. Think, think, think!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And I guess your showing that Jesus was called Lord and God again. Why are you still stuck on that? Is Jesus not a "Lord" and a God? If your saying that he is Almighty God and "LORD" Jehovah your completely wrong. The Bible says there are many Lords and many Gods. Why is that so hard to understand? Think, think, think. Use spiritual understanding and a big dose of common sense!!!!!!!!!!
If you had really read my last post from the Catholic Encylo you would get the point that the name Jehovah has been replaced by the word LORD thousands of times in the Bible. That's why the huge amount of confusion exist as to which LORD/Lord the scriptures are speaking of.
But then most of these translations were backed by trinitarian religions which only helps they think to prove the trinity. A very, very wrong thing to do. They will answer to God for that mistake.......
Originally posted by RJHindsYou can't put a puzzle together my friend because as you have said yourself " The trinity may have flaws" & "It is not to be understood" I believe were your words.
For g75, his pride has blinded him. Even though we give him the
answer to the chess puzzle, he looks for a flaw in the answer and
thinks he sees one even though it isn't there.
So lets see this puzzle fit and see the truth clearly with those rules you make? Lol.
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Originally posted by galveston75Apparently you have never learned to read well or understand what you
You can't put a puzzle together my friend because as you have said yourself " The trinity may have flaws" & "It is not to be understood" I believe were your words.
So lets see this puzzle fit and see the truth clearly with those rules you make? Lol.
read. Maybe it is those California public schools fault, right? I know
you will blame it on someone other than yourself. It can't be Texas.
Originally posted by galveston75You are getting funny now. You don't seem to realize you are the
Now I know you don't read all the post as we've discussed this in length before....
The Bible says he was "raised in Spirit" so you must be calling the Bible a book of lies then. Are you? But if you don't agree with that then there must be an explination..Right? Are you willing to learn or stay stuck in the darkness?
Have not spirit beings, angels, n ...[text shortened]... nity. A very, very wrong thing to do. They will answer to God for that mistake.......
confused one.
Originally posted by RJHindsOk whatever. I'm not the one who said the tritnity has some flaws. Thats not anything to put ones faith in...
You are getting funny now. You don't seem to realize you are the
confused one.
Nothing I believe in has pagan origins. Everything I believe in I can explain with scriptures to back them up, not just a few wishy washy scriptures that you think mean the trinity. They say exactly what they say and you have not to this day shown ONE scripture where Jesus said he is Jehovah God Almighty.
Even the Catholic religion admits the trinity is not in the Bible and most bible scholars admit the same.
I have no confusion about the trinity at all. It's false and demon inspired.
And one day soon my friend you will know who Jehovah is loud and clear.
1 Thes 5:1-5
Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, YOU need nothing to be written to YOU. 2 For YOU yourselves know quite well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. 3 Whenever it is that they are saying: “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape. 4 But YOU, brothers, YOU are not in darkness, so that that day should overtake YOU as it would thieves, 5 for YOU are all sons of light and sons of day. We belong neither to night nor to darkness.
Originally posted by galveston75I'm not the one that said the Trinity has some flaws either. Everything I
Ok whatever. I'm not the one who said the tritnity has some flaws. Thats not anything to put ones faith in...
Nothing I believe in has pagan origins. Everything I believe in I can explain with scriptures to back them up, not just a few wishy washy scriptures that you think mean the trinity. They say exactly what they say and you have not to this day sh ...[text shortened]... , 5 for YOU are all sons of light and sons of day. We belong neither to night nor to darkness.
believe in also has scripture to back it up. You are right, I have not given
you scripture that says Jesus is Jehovah God Almighty; but jaywill has.
You apparently did not read it for you did not reply to him. I have never
said the Catholic Religion has it all right. But just because the word
"Trinity" is not in the Holy Bible does not mean the idea is not there. For
example the Watchtower Society claims to be a "Theocracy" and that
word is not in the Holy Bible either. So maybe that is false and demon
inspired. And my friend I already know who Jehovah is and I look forward
to that day when Jesus returns in the clouds and everyone will see Him.
Originally posted by galveston75Taken from www.biblegateway.com
Now I know you don't read all the post as we've discussed this in length before....
The Bible says he was "raised in Spirit" so you must be calling the Bible a book of lies then. Are you? But if you don't agree with that then there must be an explination..Right? Are you willing to learn or stay stuck in the darkness?
Have not spirit beings, angels, n ...[text shortened]... nity. A very, very wrong thing to do. They will answer to God for that mistake.......
Luke 24:36-
36 While they were telling these things, He Himself stood in their midst and *said to them, “Peace be to you.” 37 But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38 And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” 40 And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” 42 They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43 and He took it and ate it before them.
G-75 Jesus had flesh and bone look at V39 either that or you don't understand the true power of God!!! And are calling Christ a liar. Bow to your Lord and Savior.
Manny
Originally posted by menace71Its no use Manny. The JW's are dead set on making liars of the scripture writers. Their father Satan, the father of all lies, knows the scriptures very well, and has taught them to twist the scripture to suit his worldly purpose. When beleivers refute their heretical teachings they seek to find contradiction to destroy the faith of others. Review their posts and see if that isn't true. Time and again they would rather you left believing in nothing thn to hold tight to your faith.
Taken from www.biblegateway.com
Luke 24:36-
36 While they were telling these things, He Himself stood in their midst and *said to them, “Peace be to you.” 37 But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38 And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 See My hands and My fe ...[text shortened]... the true power of God!!! And are calling Christ a liar. Bow to your Lord and Savior.
Manny
Their greatest and most evil of lies is to teach that Jesus was the archangel Michael. It has been clearly shown in this and other threads that Christ is in fact God; and that the scriptures in no way at all teach that Jesus was an archangel, yet they persist with their heresy.
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Originally posted by duecerHummmm, does the word antichrist mean anything to you if you even know what that means?
Its no use Manny. The JW's are dead set on making liars of the scripture writers. Their father Satan, the father of all lies, knows the scriptures very well, and has taught them to twist the scripture to suit his worldly purpose. When beleivers refute their heretical teachings they seek to find contradiction to destroy the faith of others. Review their posts ptures in no way at all teach that Jesus was an archangel, yet they persist with their heresy.
Your Bible says God is ((((( 1 ))))) God. We agree. How is that a lie?
In your Bible Jesus says his Father is greater then he is. We agree. How is that a lie?
In your Bible it says only Jehovah knows certian things that the son doesn't know. We agree. How is that a lie?
Should I continue? I could continue to post scripture after scripture that proves what the Bible says about Jehovah and Jesus and the Holy Spirit that we completely believe. How is that a lie?
The issue here is really not the trinity or a burning hell or salvation or who goes to heaven or lives on the earth.
The issues are the truths on these and many other subjects that satan and man has twisted and has filled with pagan doctrines and the fact that we have moved on from those untruths and the mainstream religions that teach them.
And because we have done that and have exposed the religions that are still stuck in the dark ages spiritually, we have now become targets of hatred by all the world and especially the worlds religions.
Jesus said at Matt 24:9:
New Living Translation (NLT)
9 “Then you will be arrested, persecuted, and killed. You will be hated all over the world because you are my followers.
I see no other Christian religion that has this problem and for the fact that antichrist like you continue to stick the knifes in our backs and twist every chance you get only confirms we are Jesus's followers
Thank you so much for confirming that...........
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Originally posted by duecerAgreed on the twisting no doubt. I was thinking about this when it says in the bible that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God I don't think it means flesh and bone could not reside in Heaven but that human striving is what cannot not inherit the kingdom of God. The funny thing is why did Jesus say you see that I have flesh and bone and a spirit does not? To contrast the difference. I also think how freaky at first it would have been for those to see Jesus after having been crucified most probably assumed that Jesus died then He's in their presence saying feel and touch. I would have been the doubting Thomas no doubt 🙂
Its no use Manny. The JW's are dead set on making liars of the scripture writers. Their father Satan, the father of all lies, knows the scriptures very well, and has taught them to twist the scripture to suit his worldly purpose. When beleivers refute their heretical teachings they seek to find contradiction to destroy the faith of others. Review their posts ptures in no way at all teach that Jesus was an archangel, yet they persist with their heresy.
Manny
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Originally posted by galveston75Dude just stop with the persecution complex !!! No one here is persecuting you.
Hummmm, does the word antichrist mean anything to you if you even know what that means?
Your Bible says God is ((((( 1 ))))) God. We agree. How is that a lie?
In your Bible Jesus says his Father is greater then he is. We agree. How is that a lie?
In your Bible it says only Jehovah knows certian things that the son doesn't know. We agree. How is ...[text shortened]... get only confirms we are Jesus's followers
Thank you so much for confirming that...........
Manny