"Christian" Trump supporters

Originally posted by @wittywonka
This is a good question, but a good answer would be long and nuanced. My mediocre answer is:

It's a self-reinforcing narrative. Popular Christianity emphasizes purity, insiders-vs-outsiders, righteous-vs-unholy. Instead of opening their doors, many churches close them, if not literally then effectively. This turns churches into louder and louder echo ...[text shortened]... their religious hypocrisies, they adopt persecution complexes and insulate themselves even more.

And when others in society, Christians or otherwise, call them out on their religious hypocrisies, they adopt persecution complexes and insulate themselves even more.

The part I find particularly perplexing is how anyone can have a personal relationship with Jesus and the Holy Spirit to guide them, yet have values that are antithetical to those espoused by Jesus. What does it say about their "relationship"? Is the Holy Spirit so ineffectual? Bigger picture, are they still Christians nevertheless? Were they ever Christians? How so?

Originally posted by @thinkofone
The part I find particularly perplexing is how anyone can have a personal relationship with Jesus and the Holy Spirit to guide them, yet have values that are antithetical to those espoused by Jesus. What does it say about their "relationship"? Is the Holy Spirit so ineffectual? Bigger picture, are they still Christians nevertheless? Were they ever Christians? How so?

People are products of their surroundings. If Sunday school teachers, preachers, leading religious figures, and other church-going friends and family all say "This is how the Bible should be interpreted," without regard for historical context, and without regard for nuances in translation, and without regard for other Bible verses that directly contradict their interpretations, then of course that's the mindset that "rank-and-file" Christians will adopt, too.

Originally posted by @wittywonka
People are products of their surroundings. If Sunday school teachers, preachers, leading religious figures, and other church-going friends and family all say "This is how the Bible should be interpreted," without regard for historical context, and without regard for nuances in translation, and without regard for other Bible verses that directly contradic ...[text shortened]... erpretations, then of course that's the mindset that "rank-and-file" Christians will adopt, too.

I understand what you are saying about how it came about and I don't disagree.

Not sure why you aren't addressing the points and questions posed in my previous posts.

Seems the obvious answers are:
1) They have no "personal relationship with Jesus".
2) They haven't received the Holy Spirit.
3) They may be "Christians" and may have ""received Jesus as [their] Savior", but they are not and never have been "followers of Jesus".

Originally posted by @thinkofone
I understand what you are saying about how it came about and I don't disagree.

Not sure why you aren't addressing the points and questions posed in my previous posts.

Seems the obvious answers are:
1) They have no "personal relationship with Jesus".
2) They haven't received the Holy Spirit.
3) They may be "Christians" and may have ""received Jesus as [their] Savior", but they are not and never have been "followers of Jesus".

I guess I was trying to give answers that I felt comfortable giving.

I do think that “how it came about” is intricately related to “how it currently is,” and hopefully some of the thoughts I cobbled together before offer an insight or two into your questions.

“Are they still Christians nevertheless? Were they ever Christians?”

I don’t know. I have never known how to deal with this question in any context. Just like I didn’t know how to deal with right-wing accusations that Pres. Obama was not a “true” Christian. I don’t think there’s a single, unambiguous modern-day lifestyle to which all Christians should compare themselves, but I also don’t think it’s totally relative, either. I usually just stick to, do their actions align with values espoused by Jesus? That is still subjective, but less ambiguous than “are they a ‘true’ Christian”?

“How do you account for this?”

Again, I don’t know. Intolerance for cognitive dissonance? Which, again, relates to structural factors in places of worship. Avoiding opportunities for cognitive dissonance reinforces feelings of righteousness.

Originally posted by @whodey
This is what Obama said

“The depth of this commitment may be summarily dismissed as the unfounded optimism of the average American—I may not be Donald Trump now, but just you wait; if I don’t make it, my children will.”

Now you may claim that there is no hero worship here, but if so I have a bridge I can sell ya.

"Hero worship"?

Who are "I" and "my" referencing in that observation?

I don't think you are actually misunderstanding the words; I think you are being dishonest. You were called out for it on that thread.

Originally posted by @fmf
I'm talking about tens of millions of Christian voters not a tiny number of people who make podcasts.

Aww, so the nuanced, good beliefs of well spoken conservatives doesn't interest you...

... I guess, the nuanced, good beliefs of their millions of listeners who tune in and share many of their opinions with them also doesn't interest you...

So what interests FMF?

People, who aren't even in this forum, who aren't listening to Podcasts of active Christian conservatives, etc., who are Trump voters...

He wants to beat up on the lowest common denominator of Trump voters and nobody else.

What if I was interested in only debating the dumbest liberals?

This is a messed up position, FMF. You only want the low hanging fruit and are basically angry at people who aren't as smart as you.

Imagine, for a moment, someone smarter than you (if you can), and how they must feel about you. 😆 😆

Originally posted by @philokalia
This is a messed up position, FMF. You only want the low hanging fruit and are basically angry at people who aren't as smart as you.

Imagine, for a moment, someone smarter than you (if you can), and how they must feel about you.

Like I said, a smattering of disgruntled podcasters does not address the question.

Originally posted by @philokalia
People, who aren't even in this forum, who aren't listening to Podcasts of active Christian conservatives, etc., who are Trump voters...

If there are conservative Christian posters on this forum who have condemned Trump's behaviour and character, I have missed it.

Originally posted by @wittywonka
I guess I was trying to give answers that I felt comfortable giving.

I do think that “how it came about” is intricately related to “how it currently is,” and hopefully some of the thoughts I cobbled together before offer an insight or two into your questions.

“Are they still Christians nevertheless? Were they ever Christians?”

I don’t know. I ha ...[text shortened]... f worship. Avoiding opportunities for cognitive dissonance reinforces feelings of righteousness.

Let me rephrase the part that is the most perplexing:

How is it possible for someone who has received the holy spirit to have values that are antithetical to those espoused by Jesus?

Originally posted by @fmf
"Hero worship"?

Who are "I" and "my" referencing in that observation?

I don't think you are actually misunderstanding the words; I think you are being dishonest. You were called out for it on that thread.

You are being disingenuous.

Can you picture Obama saying this?

“The depth of this commitment may be summarily dismissed as the unfounded optimism of the average American—I may not be Adolf Hitler now, but just you wait; if I don’t make it, my children will.”

Originally posted by @whodey
You are being disingenuous.

I am not. You are deliberately mischaracterizing what the words you quoted meant. You were called out for it. And here you are repeating it on a different forum.

Originally posted by @whodey
The depth of this commitment may be summarily dismissed as the unfounded optimism of the average American—I may not be Adolf Hitler now, but just you wait; if I don’t make it, my children will.

"Adolf Hitler"?

Originally posted by @thinkofone
Let me rephrase the part that is the most perplexing:

How is it possible for someone who has received the holy spirit to have values that are antithetical to those espoused by Jesus?

1 Corinthians 1:29-31 English Standard Version (ESV)
29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. 30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

Do you think a flip is switched and immediately people stop sinning and become perfect
representations of God in the flesh once they have received the Spirit of God?

1 Peter 1:1-3 English Standard Version (ESV)

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood:
May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Originally posted by @fmf
"Adolf Hitler"?

That is what the Left compares Trump to today but back when Trump was not running for office, no one compared him to Hitler. In fact, you would never write a paper remotely suggesting that you wanted to be like Hitler.

Trump is also accused of being a racist. Could you imagine Obama writing a paper about wanting to be as successful as David Duke?

No.

My point is, Trump's name was used because Obama looked up to him because of his financial success. He could have used a great number of other people to use in his paper, but he chose "The Donald". This shows that no one at the time viewed him as a fascist or a racist, or an idiot, otherwise, he would have used a different name.

It really is all manufactured for political purposes.

FMF: "Adolf Hitler"?

Originally posted by @whodey
That is what the Left compares Trump to today but back when Trump was not running for office, no one compared him to Hitler. In fact, you would never write a paper remotely suggesting that you wanted to be like Hitler.

Go find people who think Trump is the same as Hitler and discuss it with them, then. Obama didn't write a paper about Hitler. Why are you talking to me about Hitler? You famously claimed John McCain was the same as Hitler. Your prattle about Hitler has no meaning.