Originally posted by HalitoseI am not condemning the whole of christianity. My belief is that the MAJORITY OF Christians today are just as immoral, and in some cases MORE so, than non-Christians. It's just that they use their religion as a front to justify everything they do, think or say. I'm afraid I can't be any more specific than that. What do you want me to do? Name particular individuals? I've already mentioned the Pope. He's supposed to be following the ways of Christ yet he lives a life completely the opposite. He lives in splendour and luxury, owns a gold-plated church, some of the worlds most valuable works of art, etc. etc. AND he sits up there in the Vatican and passes JUDGEMENT down on the rest of the world, and most of his followers are thousands of times poorer than what he is! Can you not see my point? Ask yourself - What would Jesus do?
[b]I didn't think I was being ambiguous. You should consult your oxford dictionary again, that definition you just pulled out specified exactly what I meant. Nothing ambiguous about it.
Exactly. It was at who/what it was directed that was ambiguous.
In regards to my much loved blanket statements, try consulting some of my earlier posts, there ...[text shortened]...
I see from your description that you're an actor. May I ask in which field of the arts?[/b]
In response to your last question ....mmm ...I'm not sure why you want to know this exactly. But I've worked in theatre and film. Theatre mostly. Why do you ask?
Originally posted by frogstompThanks froggy, I like this...must remember to use it sometime. I agree about the three headed body...I especially like this...
read this by Thomas Jefferson :
"No historical fact is better established, than that the doctrine of one God, pure and uncompounded, was that of the early ages of Christianity . . . Nor was the unity of the Supreme Being ousted from the Christian creed by the force of reason, but by the sword of civil government, wielded at the will of the Athanas ...[text shortened]... mas Jefferson: Letter to James Smith, Dec. 8, 1822
a bit of Deism for you to chomp on
The Athanasian paradox that one is three, and three but one, is so incomprehensible to the human mind, that no candid man can say he has any idea of it, and how can he believe what presents no idea? He who thinks he does, only deceives himself.
Originally posted by KnightWulfeThe Bible, also written by man, taught by man and translated ad nauseum by man, is spewing with contradictions.
I have to pipe in here with a few comments -
First off - Have you ever considered this?
The WORD OF GOD, was written by man, carried by man, taught by man, translated ad nauseum by man again and again over 5000 years. At the very core of Christianity, it states that man is a fallable creature. You're tell me that NOT ONCE in that entire time did ma ...[text shortened]... account anything that we have learned in the last 2000 years.
Lastly: Frog - Excellent post.
Spewing with contradictions? I don't think so. Can you be more specific? I have been reading/studying it for many years and have yet to see it "spewing" with contradictions. There are a "few" apparant contradictions, but it is only due to a lack of understanding or a poor translation.
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Originally posted by checkbaiterI must apologize, I do not have the time to cover all of them, it would take far too long, and quite honestly, is not worth the time spent. I will however start and finish with these:
[b]The Bible, also written by man, taught by man and translated ad nauseum by man, is spewing with contradictions.
Spewing with contradictions? I don't think so. Can you be more specific? I have been reading/studying it for many years and have yet to see it "spewing" with contradictions. There are a "few" apparant contradictions, but it is only due to a lack of understanding or a poor translation.[/b]
Commandment 2 - You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, 6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Idols? - The Virgin Mary , the Crucifix, a statue of Gabriel, statues of all of the Saints.... All of these are idols. Whatever word you use, they are a representation of the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Now, compare the line " for I the LORD your God am a jealous God"
with Commandment 10 - "Thou shalt not covet." - To covet is to desire - within the commandment itself, it states not to covet thy neighbor's blah blah blah.... So, you are not to desire them - Desire is the breeding ground of jealousy....which God has already stated that he is....so, you have a case of do what I say, not what I do.
Number 6 - THou shalt not kill..... Need I cover how many millions of deaths are on the hands of religion? The Bible itself tells tales of war and death and killing. And dont give me the crap about "they are infidels!" - The Commandment does not say "Thou shalt not kill, except infidels.... it says THOU SHALT NOT KILL. Period. No exceptions.
Contradictions in the very foundation of the faith. Hmmm...
Originally posted by KnightWulfeThese are good points. And they're only a handful! There are THOUSANDS more throughout the entire text
I must apologize, I do not have the time to cover all of them, it would take far too long, and quite honestly, is not worth the time spent. I will however start and finish with these:
Commandment 2 - You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the wate ...[text shortened]... NOT KILL. Period. No exceptions.
Contradictions in the very foundation of the faith. Hmmm...
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Originally posted by KnightWulfeCommandment 2
I must apologize, I do not have the time to cover all of them, it would take far too long, and quite honestly, is not worth the time spent. I will however start and finish with these:
Commandment 2 - You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the wate ...[text shortened]... NOT KILL. Period. No exceptions.
Contradictions in the very foundation of the faith. Hmmm...
Idol, n.: an object, frequently an image, which is worshiped as a deity.
Statues etc, don't count unless they are worshiped.
Commandment 10
You are not to desire something that is not our own. Since we are created by God, He can be jealous over us as much as He likes and He wont be breaking commandment 10.
Commandment 6
Thou shalt not murder.
In the Hebrew it's the verb, ratsach which means murder: The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
P.S. Christ summed up the ten commandments into 2, which are the ones Christians are supposed to follow.
Originally posted by BromageYou began your whole state in the beginning insulting and condemning Christians. You are wrong when you say the Majority of Christians are immoral. The majority of Christians go about living their lives just as everyone else. With the only exception that they live for GOD, and do all they can, to follow THE WORD OF GOD.
I am not condemning the whole of christianity. My belief is that the MAJORITY OF Christians today are just as immoral, and in some cases MORE so, than non-Christians. It's just that they use their religion as a front to justify everything they do, think or say. I'm afraid I can't be any more specific than that. What do you want me to do? Name particular i ...[text shortened]... ant to know this exactly. But I've worked in theatre and film. Theatre mostly. Why do you ask?
Yes you are right, there are many ministries that have leaders and bank accounts, which allow them to live in splendor and luxury. But that is a minority of Ministries.
What would JESUS do?
JESUS spoke of what you are talking about, in REVELATIONS 1:17-3:22. JESUS will judge HIS church, and HIS followers.
If you truly want to explain more clearly why you believe as you do, I hope I can offer you a suggestion? Why don't start with a particular Denomination, Ministry, Man of GOD, or just an average Christian. Express your complaint(s), your thought(s), or obsevation(s). Hopefully a member of that Denomination, Ministry, Man of GOD, or average christian, will come forth and defend or deny your accusations and complaints. That way you can futher your thoughts and get a better understanding of your statements. Just a suggestion.
Originally posted by HalitoseI cannot tell you the number of times I have seen people praying to and before the images, statues, etc... of THe Vigrin Mary, the saints, the Crucifix, etc... That makes them idols.
[b]Commandment 2
Idol, n.: an object, frequently an image, which is worshiped as a deity.
Statues etc, don't count unless they are worshiped.
Commandment 10
You are not to desire something that is not our own. Since we are created by God, He can be jealous over us as much as He likes and He wont be breaking commandment 10.
Com ...[text shortened]... ist summed up the ten commandments into 2, which are the ones Christians are supposed to follow.
Like I said - Do as he says, not as he does..... No my kind of deity, sorry.
Again - sorry...it is THOU SHALT NOT KILL. not murder. I read through 7 different versions of the Bible, of the 20 some there are. Every single one said KILL not MURDER. So your argument is invalid.
The contradictions stand. You can explain them away as much as you want to make your faith and religion seem valid to you. But your words hold no accuracy or truth.
Originally posted by KnightWulfeRe: idols
I cannot tell you the number of times I have seen people praying to and before the images, statues, etc... of THe Vigrin Mary, the saints, the Crucifix, etc... That makes them idols.
Like I said - Do as he says, not as he does..... No my kind of deity, sorry.
Again - sorry...it is THOU SHALT NOT KILL. not murder. I read through 7 different versions ...[text shortened]... ant to make your faith and religion seem valid to you. But your words hold no accuracy or truth.
This is an assertion any 10-yr old practising Catholic can refute on the spot. When Catholics "pray" to Mary, the Saints etc. they are praying in the sense of 'requesting for intercession' rather than 'worship' (which is God's prerogative). It is a mark of respect essentially of the same nature as one would respect one's parents, teachers or elders.
Then again, perhaps you come from a cultural background that no longer knows what such respect means.
Re: Thou shalt not kill
Which part of 'ratsach' meaning premedidated murder did you not understand? Check http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/7/1132447978-2193.html for instance.
Originally posted by lucifershammerI think that is the point he is trying to make. Praying to a statue of mary or a so-called saint, is not intercession between man and GOD.
Re: idolscession
This is an assertion any 10-yr old practising Catholic can refute on the spot. When Catholics "pray" to Mary, the Saints etc. they are praying in the sense of 'requesting for intercession' rather than 'worship' (which is God's prerogative). It is a mark of respect essentially of the same nature as one would respect one ...[text shortened]... erstand? Check http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/7/1132447978-2193.html for instance.
It is Idol worship, Mary or any so called saint, is no closer to GOD than the average person, nor do they answer prayers. The only way to GOD is through JESUS CHRIST, and only through HIM.
Originally posted by blindfaith101Have you ever asked a parent, brother/sister, family member or friend to pray for you (or for someone else you love)?
I think that is the point he is trying to make. Praying to a statue of mary or a so-called saint, is not intercession between man and GOD.
It is Idol worship, Mary or any so called saint, is no closer to GOD than the average person, nor do they answer prayers. The only way to GOD is through JESUS CHRIST, and only through HIM.