1. SubscriberBigDoggProblemonline
    The Advanced Mind
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    21 Sep '17 22:21
    I am an American, and this country is full of people who love both Jesus and Guns. I suppose I find that a little bit odd, given the overall pacific nature of Jesus' teachings.

    I suppose target practice is harmless enough. I admit that I both own guns and yet do not consider myself a violent person.

    But my neighbor's door recently got kicked in and they got robbed. I don't want to ever have to do it, but if the same happens to me then I'll load my 12 gauge and shoot the intruders if need be.

    Do any of the Christians here struggle with the idea of harming people, even in the course of self defense? I am not a Christian, but I do. I would kill an intruder in self-defense if he forced me to do it, but I fear I would be traumatized from the the experience and I would find it hard to live with. I fear I would have nightmares in which I re-lived the shooting again and again. I fear that final face of the dead person would haunt me.
  2. Standard membervivify
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    21 Sep '17 22:41
    Violence due to self defense isn't a contradiction in the bible. "Turn the other cheek" doesn't mean don't defend yourself; people get that wrong.

    The bible tells Christians to "carry a dagger" to protect themselves. And that's a New Testament quote.
  3. SubscriberBigDoggProblemonline
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    21 Sep '17 23:23
    Originally posted by @vivify
    Violence due to self defense isn't a contradiction in the bible. "Turn the other cheek" doesn't mean don't defend yourself; people get that wrong.

    The bible tells Christians to "carry a dagger" to protect themselves. And that's a New Testament quote.
    Maybe it is not a contradiction. Still, I'd appreciate at least a link to explain why "turning the other cheek" does not rule out lethal self-defense.
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    21 Sep '17 23:33
    Originally posted by @bigdoggproblem
    Maybe it is not a contradiction. Still, I'd appreciate at least a link to explain why "turning the other cheek" does not rule out lethal self-defense.
    Turn the other cheek does not mean let some group of guys break into your home and rape your daughter or wife.
  5. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    21 Sep '17 23:49
    Originally posted by @bigdoggproblem
    Do any of the Christians here struggle with the idea of harming people, even in the course of self defense?
    As an atheist I do.
    I certainly would not shoot someone breaking into my home unless a life was in danger.

    In fact the law in NZ and UK prohibits excessive force
    and unlike the States you will end up in prison if you
    shoot someone on your property.

    I think culture probably pays a much larger part than religion.

    In other words US Christians will think more like US
    non-Christians than they would UK Christians on this issue.
  6. Joined
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    22 Sep '17 00:01
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    As an atheist I do.
    I certainly would not shoot someone breaking into my home unless a life was in danger.

    In fact the law in NZ and UK prohibits excessive force
    and unlike the States you will end up in prison if you
    shoot someone on your property.

    I think culture probably pays a much larger part than religion.

    In other words US Christians will think more like US
    non-Christians than they would UK Christians on this issue.
    UK men let their wife and daughters get raped?
  7. SubscriberBigDoggProblemonline
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    22 Sep '17 00:08
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    As an atheist I do.
    I certainly would not shoot someone breaking into my home unless a life was in danger.

    In fact the law in NZ and UK prohibits excessive force
    and unlike the States you will end up in prison if you
    shoot someone on your property.

    I think culture probably pays a much larger part than religion.

    In other words US Christians will think more like US
    non-Christians than they would UK Christians on this issue.
    Maybe culture is the problem. Literally, this happened to my next-door neighbor.

    But if I'm going to shoot, it's to kill. I'm not going to leave a guy maimed to bring charges against me.

    But there is another cultural thing. I think most US courts would find my case sympathetic and let me off.
  8. Standard memberRBHILL
    Acts 13:48
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    22 Sep '17 00:38
    Originally posted by @bigdoggproblem
    I am an American, and this country is full of people who love both Jesus and Guns. I suppose I find that a little bit odd, given the overall pacific nature of Jesus' teachings.

    I suppose target practice is harmless enough. I admit that I both own guns and yet do not consider myself a violent person.

    But my neighbor's door recently got kicked in ...[text shortened]... re-lived the shooting again and again. I fear that final face of the dead person would haunt me.
    I know some religious people who think that if someone breaks in their house they shouldn't fight back and kill because that other person probably doesn't know Jesus Christ and they will risk their life because their eternity is already set in stone.
  9. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    22 Sep '17 01:04
    Originally posted by @eladar
    UK men let their wife and daughters get raped?
    Reported rapes in USA, UK and NZ are all about 3-4 per million of population.

    Guns don't seem to matter do they?
  10. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
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    22 Sep '17 01:17
    Originally posted by @bigdoggproblem
    I am an American, and this country is full of people who love both Jesus and Guns. I suppose I find that a little bit odd, given the overall pacific nature of Jesus' teachings.

    I suppose target practice is harmless enough. I admit that I both own guns and yet do not consider myself a violent person.

    But my neighbor's door recently got kicked in ...[text shortened]... re-lived the shooting again and again. I fear that final face of the dead person would haunt me.
    I think you feel that because you know how special all life is, which I think speaks very
    highly of you. You would no doubt feel the same way even if you accidently caused
    another to die. I think having my own life threaten I may defer, but my family I'd more than
    likely send them to God, and as you say, feel that the rest of my life.
  11. Standard memberlemon lime
    go phish
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    22 Sep '17 01:28
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    As an atheist I do.
    I certainly would not shoot someone breaking into my home unless a life was in danger.

    In fact the law in NZ and UK prohibits excessive force
    and unlike the States you will end up in prison if you
    shoot someone on your property.

    I think culture probably pays a much larger part than religion.

    In other words US Christians will think more like US
    non-Christians than they would UK Christians on this issue.
    In my opinion if someone unlawfully* breaks into my home then he (or she) automatically gives up the 'right' to be treated in a fair and equitable manner.

    * this (obviously) doesn't apply to a neighbor, friend or relative who forcefully enters because they believe I'm in need of help.
  12. Joined
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    22 Sep '17 01:39
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    Reported rapes in USA, UK and NZ are all about 3-4 per million of population.

    Guns don't seem to matter do they?
    I only care about the potential one in my house.
  13. Joined
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    22 Sep '17 02:02
    Originally posted by @bigdoggproblem
    I am an American, and this country is full of people who love both Jesus and Guns. I suppose I find that a little bit odd, given the overall pacific nature of Jesus' teachings.

    I suppose target practice is harmless enough. I admit that I both own guns and yet do not consider myself a violent person.

    But my neighbor's door recently got kicked in ...[text shortened]... re-lived the shooting again and again. I fear that final face of the dead person would haunt me.
    I am a Christian, and I feel the same way.

    I think that the sanctity of human life that we feel exists in us causes us pause when deliberating the idea of killing a human being, under any circumstances, but there is also that drive within we call self preservation. I hate the idea of killing, but I hope I wouldn't hesitate, especially in defense of another.
  14. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    22 Sep '17 08:10
    Originally posted by @lemon-lime
    In my opinion if someone unlawfully* breaks into my home then he (or she) automatically gives up the 'right' to be treated in a fair and equitable manner.

    * this (obviously) doesn't apply to a neighbor, friend or relative who forcefully enters because they believe I'm in need of help.
    So killing someone who is attempting to steal your tv is ok?
  15. Joined
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    22 Sep '17 08:23
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    As an atheist I do.
    I certainly would not shoot someone breaking into my home unless a life was in danger.

    In fact the law in NZ and UK prohibits excessive force
    and unlike the States you will end up in prison if you
    shoot someone on your property.

    I think culture probably pays a much larger part than religion.

    In other words US Christians will think more like US
    non-Christians than they would UK Christians on this issue.
    US Christians seem to think like no other Christians I've ever met.
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