08 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999Different rules?
The passage is talking about those who fall away. Those who fall away do so for many reasons. The point is that Christians who fall away will not get eternal life contrary to the doctrine of several posters here.
Im disucssing Christians here, This is not about those who never heard of Christ. Like I said before there are different rules for those people. No my mind did not change.
08 Oct 15
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayPaul identified two groups of people. Those who have the Law and those who do not [they live by their own law]. All people will be judged by God. All people have a conscience that is their guide as to what is good and what is evil.
Different rules?
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. (Rom 2:14-16)
We spoke of this already. However this thread is about Christians.
08 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999Jesus identified two groups of people too, those that believed in Him and those that did
Paul identified two groups of people. Those who have the Law and those who do not [they live by their own law]. All people will be judged by God. All people have a conscience that is their guide as to what is good and what is evil.
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, a ...[text shortened]... gospel. (Rom 2:14-16)
We spoke of this already. However this thread is about Christians.
not.
One group, the group that did not believe in Him Jesus said were condemned already, it
really doesn't matter what their conscience says if Jesus said they were condemned now
does it? I also don't think your interpretation is correct in who Paul was speaking of too,
but that doesn't really matter when you look at what Jesus said.
08 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999"Christians"
Paul identified two groups of people. Those who have the Law and those who do not [they live by their own law]. All people will be judged by God. All people have a conscience that is their guide as to what is good and what is evil.
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, a ...[text shortened]... gospel. (Rom 2:14-16)
We spoke of this already. However this thread is about Christians.
They are just people, I don't sort them out as you do. People can call themselves Christians
or not, if they are right with God through Jesus Christ that is all that matters, if they are not
than that will be all that matters with them too.
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Originally posted by Rajk999I profess I believe in Christ therefore Im saved eternally [/b
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Yes. No one is able to snatch the sheep out of His hand. I have a FIRM foundation for my sanctification and transformation.
[b] And I give to them eternal life, and they shall by no means perish forever, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand.
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch then out of My Father's hand.
I and the Father are one. (John 10:28-30)
- Not even God can take away my eternal life
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It says He is faithful and RIGHTEOUS to forgive us our sins.
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." ( 1 John 1:9)
For His to forgive us in the name of Jesus Christ the Son of God is the RIGHTEOUS thing He must do. He is faithful and righteous to save us eternally.
If He does not eternally justify us He is not righteous. Righteousness is the foundation of His throne (Psalm 89:3)
You're a good fella for affirming our security in Christ.
- Christ died for my sins past present and future
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Thank GOD !
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08 Oct 15
- I have eternal life now
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I have eternal life and I am exhorted to "lay hold of eternal life" to which I was called (Tim. 6:12). So I have eternal life and I pursue to enjoy even more of this life.
" I have written these things to you that you may know that you have eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13)
You're a good boy Rajk999.
Good for bringing out the truth of a strong foundation for eternal salvation.
- My sins are all paid for, and no sin I commit would be held against me
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Now you are not talking about me.
The implication is that I can sow to the sinful flesh. But if I do not allow this life to grow in me I can sow and reap corruption of the flesh.
The lessons have to be learned SOMETIME. Either in this age or in the kingdom age to follow. But God is not mocked. And if I have this eternal life I cannot postpone being permeated and saturated with this eternal life.
Paul writes to the Christians in the churches in Galatia:
"Do not be deceived: God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
For he who sows unto his own flesh will reap corruption of the flesh, but he who sows unto the Spirit will reap eternal life." (Galatians 6:7,8)
There is no contradiction.
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- I am not saved by works so I dont have to do anything like good works
You just love so much to put words into the mouths of Christians.
How about we put the word of God into out mouths as believers.
" .. work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; For it is God who operates in you both for the willing and the working for His good pleasure." (Phil. 2:12b,13)
The main WORK is to allow God to WORK Christ into our soul.
The main work of God is to let God WROUGHT Christ into the fabric of our personality in all things for the building up of the Body of Christ.
" Now He who has wrought us for this very thing is God, who has given to us the Spirit as a pledge." ( 2 Cor. 5:5)
God gives to the believer a PLEDGE, the Holy Spirit, pledging that He will complete His transformation of us.
The PLEDGE of the Holy Spirit is with us "forever" (John 14:16). And we embark on the life long matter of God WROUGHTING us as a mingling of Jesus and our own souls. He works Christ into us.
We can delay Him and cause Him a little trouble.
We cannot stop Him or cease to eventually be fully wrought upon as mature sons of God.
He has this age.
He has the kingdom age.
The good work that He has begun He cannot fail to perfect in everyone who receives Christ.
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08 Oct 15
Rajk999,
And now I think that is enough strawmen arguments you have erected for me.
Are you built up practically with anyone ?
Is there anyone who might say "Yes, Rajk999 and I are built up together is oneness and in the brotherly love of the Holy Spirit"
Or are you the Lone Ranger of Bible knowledge all these individualistic years ? Are you able to meet with brothers and sisters anywhere ?
I want to come and meet with your group and see for myself.
Here are some believers that I am built up with some.
Originally posted by sonshipYou need to stop being so deceitful Sonship. ... QUOTE THE WHOLE PASSAGE ... you are aware that there is a relevant previous verse.
[b] I profess I believe in Christ therefore Im saved eternally [/b
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Yes. No one is able to snatch the sheep out of His hand. I have a FIRM foundation for my sanctification and transformation.
[quote] [b] And I give to them eternal life, and they shall by no means ...[text shortened]... uture
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Thank GOD ![/b]
Here it is :
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
(Joh 10:27-28)
Who gets eternal life ? Christ sheep .. those that follow Christ commandments
Definitely not all Christians or those who profess faith with their mouth.
Again in Matt 25 .. the sheep do good works and get eternal life.
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Christ died for sins past:
Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
NOWHERE does the Bible says that Christ died for your past present and future sins.
08 Oct 15
Originally posted by sonshipAgain Sonship, you are ignoring the relevant parts ... 1 John 5 is dedicated to following Christ and obeying commandments and loving each other and THEN THERE IS ETERNAL LIFE .. IF AND ONLY IF WE FOLLOW CHRIST.
[b]
- I have eternal life now
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I have eternal life and I am exhorted to "lay hold of eternal life" to which I was called (Tim. 6:12). So I have eternal life and I pursue to enjoy even more of this life.
" I have written these things to you that you may know that you have eterna ...[text shortened]... e Spirit will reap eternal life." (Galatians 6:7,8)
There is no contradiction.[/b]
The guarantee of eternal life is there but nobody has it as yet. Paul was very clear that he does not have eternal life YET but he has to await the return of Christ.
Originally posted by sonshipI have told probably about 200 people about the truth that is contained in the doctrine of Christ and the right road to eternal life. Needless to say I had to tell them that much of modern Christianity is false. Like you sonship they could not argue with the passages I quoted, but being brainwashed is very hard place to more away from. I dont need other believers. I need the strength of Jesus Christ and I have that ... 😀 Hope you have that as well.
Rajk999,
And now I think that is enough strawmen arguments you have erected for me.
Are you built up practically with anyone ?
Is there anyone who might say "Yes, Rajk999 and I are built up together is oneness and in the brotherly love of the Holy Spirit"
Or are you the [b] Lone Ranger of Bible knowledge all these individualistic year ...[text shortened]... are some believers that I am built up with some.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG9JrpoJKWs[/b]
08 Oct 15
Originally posted by KellyJayI did not. You do not remember that we already discussed it. Let me remind you.
I noticed you ignored Jesus' quote that does not line up with your doctrine.
My response is that Christ would not expect anyone to believe unless someone was to preach to those people. If people are taught and then they reject Christ / do not believe in Christ then they are condemned.
For those who do not know about Christ then that passage cannot apply to them.
09 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999Are you adding to the text?
I did not. You do not remember that we already discussed it. Let me remind you.
My response is that Christ would not expect anyone to believe unless someone was to preach to those people. If people are taught and then they reject Christ / do not believe in Christ then they are condemned.
For those who do not know about Christ then that passage cannot apply to them.
We never had this discussion that I can recall where unless someone has to preach to them, or the gospel doesn't apply.
That is not based upon scripture, you'll have to defend that statement with text please.