10 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999You really do twist things to make them fit how you see things. I NEVER said that
A man is saved by Jesus and the blood of Christ YES.. BUT only if he lives righteously. You seem to think that a Christian always does good works but the Bible does not say any such thing.
"... that a Christian always does good works ..."
I have quoted you scripture that says when we get right with God He gives us His Spirit
to do the works He has for us to do. No one without the Spirit of God is going to do that
because they are walking in their flesh not God's Spirit. So there is no way anyone who
is without Christ in their lives as Lord and Savior will be doing God's work. None of us
can earn this honor either, it is not by works least anyone boast.
10 Oct 15
Originally posted by KellyJayI do struggle with this to be honest.
...I have quoted you scripture that says when we get right with God He gives us His Spirit
to do the works He has for us to do. No one without the Spirit of God is going to do that
because they are walking in their flesh not God's Spirit. So there is no way anyone who
is without Christ in their lives as Lord and Savior will be doing God's work. None of us
can earn this honor either, it is not by works least anyone boast.[/b]
Surely 'God's work' is about showing kindness and love to others. I know of many non-believers who have dedicated their lives to such principles. How are they not doing God's work? (Even if they are doing it without realising it is God's work).
10 Oct 15
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Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeThe thing is all of us have fallen short and are sinners, that said then that means that from
I do struggle with this to be honest.
Surely 'God's work' is about showing kindness and love to others. I know of many non-believers who have dedicated their lives to such principles. How are they not doing God's work? (Even if they are doing it without realising it is God's work).
the worst to the best the whole group has been found wanting where it matters most. So
we can still have one better than another in our eyes, but if the whole group is condemn it
only means that one even though they are better than another they are still a sinner.
Which is why Christ died for all of our sins, making the way for each and every one of us
no matter where were on the human scale of better or worse to be forgiven. This of course
means that someone who is very bad can actually turn towards God for God's grace, and
be saved through Jesus' blood, and another someone who like you said lived a principled
life and yet remained in their sins and die will find themselves in God's wrath.
It is an honest question, it also means that when we share the good news *gospel* we
have to realize that Jesus died for those killers in ISIS just like He died for the Nuns who
help the poor and needy. Jesus deserves all our lives, we should not put one group of
sinners as not worthy of receiving Him, since He died for all of us.
We cannot think we are not worthy of Jesus, none of us are, yet He died for sinners which
only an honest response when looking at ourselves finds us all.
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeIm pretty sure that Jesus himself will struggle to understand the logic of these Christians.
I do struggle with this to be honest.
Surely 'God's work' is about showing kindness and love to others. I know of many non-believers who have dedicated their lives to such principles. How are they not doing God's work? (Even if they are doing it without realising it is God's work).
Christ said that those that he called righteous would not even know that they are doing good works for him or to him. Good people just do good things, they automatically live righteously, they dislike evil and sin, they naturally gravitate to what is right and good and just. they are born with that ingrained in them. And certainly God does that to some people, and it is God that allows others to be just the opposite.
11 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999You should stop and actually read posts, it appears you have this "idea", "assumption",
Im pretty sure that Jesus himself will struggle to understand the logic of these Christians.
Christ said that those that he called righteous would not even know that they are doing good works for him or to him. Good people just do good things, they automatically live righteously, they dislike evil and sin, they naturally gravitate to what is right and go ...[text shortened]... ertainly God does that to some people, and it is God that allows others to be just the opposite.
or "prejudice" of how Christians view sin and no matter what is said to you, you refuse to
see it any other way.
11 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999Do you live righteously and are you saved by Jesus?
A man is saved by Jesus and the blood of Christ YES.. BUT only if he lives righteously. You seem to think that a Christian always does good works but the Bible does not say any such thing.
11 Oct 15
Originally posted by KellyJayLike I said before KJ, you have a very poor memory. I listed the people that make these claims about sin and you did not challenge any, neither did the people whose names I called. They basically agreed that they make those claims. Sonship, checkbaiter and manny are all arguing that these claims made are correct.. for the most part. It appears that it is YOU that dont know what Christians typically believe.
You should stop and actually read posts, it appears you have this "idea", "assumption",
or "prejudice" of how Christians view sin and no matter what is said to you, you refuse to
see it any other way.
11 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999Why would I challenge anyone whose conversation I have not been following? Without
Like I said before KJ, you have a very poor memory. I listed the people that make these claims about sin and you did not challenge any, neither did the people whose names I called. They basically agreed that they make those claims. Sonship, checkbaiter and manny are all arguing that these claims made are correct.. for the most part. It appears that it is YOU that dont know what Christians typically believe.
the context being quite clear, I'd have to go through a ton of post to see why they said the
things they did or ask a ton of questions.
Personally, my memory about all of your different conversations is limited to the only one
I've been following which is the one you and I are having. I may pop off a commit on a
post or two I have seen, but typically you and they are adults and all of you can defend
your own point of views.
11 Oct 15
Originally posted by KellyJaySo like I said you basically dont know what other Christians post here ... then why are you arguing?
Why would I challenge anyone whose conversation I have not been following? Without
the context being quite clear, I'd have to go through a ton of post to see why they said the
things they did or ask a ton of questions.
Personally, my memory about all of your different conversations is limited to the only one
I've been following which is the one you an ...[text shortened]... seen, but typically you and they are adults and all of you can defend
your own point of views.
Go find out what they believe first and then argue
11 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999You go off as if you know what all Christians are doing and saying! I'm admitting I don't
So like I said you basically dont know what other Christians post here ... then why are you arguing?
Go find out what they believe first and then argue
know all that goes on even in this limited sample size. Over and over you keep telling all
that Christians want to believe in grace just so they can sin and not do anything. No one
here I've ever seen has said that, but from as far back as my memory does go with your
posts you make that case, it appears to me to be your one message above all others! At
least with the others you talk about they touch upon several different topics.
11 Oct 15
Originally posted by KellyJayIf you dont like what I write then dont read it. Move along to another topic ... fair enough?
You go off as if you know what all Christians are doing and saying! I'm admitting I don't
know all that goes on even in this limited sample size. Over and over you keep telling all
that Christians want to believe in grace just so they can sin and not do anything. No one
here I've ever seen has said that, but from as far back as my memory does go with you ...[text shortened]... e all others! At
least with the others you talk about they touch upon several different topics.
11 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999If it were not for the fact you twist scripture and ignore other scripture to change the
If you dont like what I write then dont read it. Move along to another topic ... fair enough?
gospel message it would be easy to do.
When I first saw you debate I found I agreed with you a ton, preaching against sin is a
big deal and a good one, doing good works is a big deal and a good one, you just leave
out God's part in it and place it on sinners who will never be good enough.
11 Oct 15
Originally posted by KellyJayI could bet any amount of money that there atheists out there that happen to read some of my posts and they can accurately summarise what I believe better than you are doing.
If it were not for the fact you twist scripture and ignore other scripture to change the
gospel message it would be easy to do.
When I first saw you debate I found I agreed with you a ton, preaching against sin is a
big deal and a good one, doing good works is a big deal and a good one, you just leave
out God's part in it and place it on sinners who will never be good enough.
Originally posted by Rajk999I don't care, what I do care about is you preach a different gospel where Jesus isn't looking for
I could bet any amount of money that there atheists out there that happen to read some of my posts and they can accurately summarise what I believe better than you are doing.
sinners instead the 'worthy'.