Spirituality
09 Sep 17
10 Sep 17
Originally posted by @eladarYou should stop telling me about my faith since every time you do it. you get it wrong.
Your faith doesn't require scripture.
Where in the Bible does it state how God hardens hearts?
I shared with you several scriptures where we harden harden our own hearts. Just go back to that post with scripture, keep a close eye on the book of Hebrews.
With respect to scripture and my faith since you don't understand my faith, you again telling how flawed it is does not mean much to me.
10 Sep 17
Originally posted by @kellyjayYou should tell me where in the Bible it states how hearts are hardened.
You should stop telling me about my faith since every time you do it. you get it wrong.
I shared with you several scriptures where we harden harden our own hearts. Just go back to that post with scripture, keep a close eye on the book of Hebrews.
With respect to scripture and my faith since you don't understand my faith, you again telling how flawed it is does not mean much to me.
11 Sep 17
Originally posted by @eladarI have given you scripture, you should study our responses to God on your own. You do not
You should tell me where in the Bible it states how hearts are hardened.
do well having someone tell you anything. God does not cause us to act against our will, but
He will take our will and act.
11 Sep 17
Originally posted by @kellyjayWhat you have given does not support your claim.
I have given you scripture, you should study our responses to God on your own. You do not
do well having someone tell you anything. God does not cause us to act against our will, but
He will take our will and act.
I do not know why you even claim to follow the Bible.
11 Sep 17
Originally posted by @kellyjayOf course you won't ask me to prove my point, I've already demonstrated that what I am saying is directly stated in the Bible.
So you say. Not worried about your views, no need to defend them to me either, I'm not
asking you to prove your point any more.
You on the other hand hold beliefs based on assumprions not directly stated in the Bible. Your assumptions even contradicts what is directly stated, but you believe it all the same.
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Originally posted by @kellyjayWe are the branches that need the Vine, we need God, each and everyone of us.
God can do anything, with or without us, what He wants to do is use us, that isn't a need on His part.
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But because He is a God of purpose, we may sense that God has a need.
There are instances where Moses sensed the need of God.
Hanah also sensed the need of God.
If we care about God's purpose I think at least in terms that human beings understand, we will sense the need for God to fulfill His purpose, and in His way.
God choosing to work with us isn't a need on His part.
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I would differ here. God has intentionally limited Himself so that He requires man on the earth to echo His own heart. It is not too much to say it is a need of God.
God FOUND in David a man after His own heart. And He was glad.
" And when He had deposed him [King Saul] He raised up David for their king, to whom also He testified and said, I have found David, the son of Jesse, a man according to My heart, who will do all My will." (Acts 13:22; comp. 1 Sam. 13:14)
We should touch something of God being happy that He had found the right man with the right heart to replace King Saul. I don't think this undercuts the attribute of the eternal God being self-existing and all-sufficient. I think it presents another side of a whole picture of God.
Even in the oldest book of the Bible, the book of Job, God is seen kind of boasting that on the earth the man Job is beyond Satan's ability to accuse.
"And Jehovah said to Satan, have you considered My servant Job? For there is none like him on the earth, a perfect and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil. " ( Job 1:8)
In a sense God is boasting that He has what He needs and Satan doesn't.
I think we can uphold the all-sufficiency eternal nature of God and also show the other side. What He requires He needs.
The five serving overseers in the church in Antioch did not just take care of the urgent needs of the congregation. And all church congregations are needy. But it says that they ministered to the Lord. They reserved time to attend to the need of God.
" Now there were in Antioch, in the local church, prophets and teachers; Barnabas and Simeon, who was called Niger, and Lucius the Cyrenian, and Manaen, the foster brother of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
And as they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, Set apart for Me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them. " ( Acts 13:1,2)
These apostles accomplished much for God's purpose. But it all began with the five brothers fasting and ministering to the Lord Jesus. They were attentive to seek what was the NEED of God.
Again, i think this does no harm to our understanding of the eternal self-sufficient and self-existing God. The Holy Spirit here had work to be done. He needed proper sent ones to accomplish it.
God can raise up stones to be Abraham's descendants.
But He has put Himself in a position that He needs for cooperative human beings to be them rather than stones.
" Produce then fruits worthy of your repentance, and do not begin to say within yourselves, We have Abraham as our Father; for I tell you that God is able out of these stones to raise up children to Abraham." (Matt. 3:8)
The Almighty God can produce what He wants with stones.
But He has placed Himself in a position that He requires obedient humans.
I have to come back latter.
This does no violence to the fact that God is self-existing and independent in another sense.
You need something it means you ate not complete without, God spent eternity past fine
without us and I'm quite sure He could have continued the same way throughout all of
time too, had He desired too. He does not need us, He wants us.
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I do not know what eternity past is like to God.
Sometimes I think time is like the curvature of eternity around God.
We only can understand time.
Anyway, because God is the ultimate Being He has the ultimate and strongest desire.
This can be perceived by us as God's need to accomplish His eternal purpose.
You are going on about the things God has chosen to do as if, if He didn't, He would suffer
for it in that He needs it, like we need food and water. That is not the case.
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i get your point and must continue latter.
In the mean time consider Christ's parable of the longing father. Or you could call it the prodigal son, in Luke 15;11-33.
Do you see how Jesus portrays the father longing for his son to be brought back from the dead? He is there waiting for him to return. He sees him afar off and runs to him falling on him with such affection.
Did Jesus portray the father as being completely complacent about the prodigal son saying - "Who cares? I have no need whatsoever." ?
11 Sep 17
Originally posted by @sonshipI disagree with you, and I don't want to repeat myself with you. I believe God is God, the same yesterday, today, and forever more. He doesn't change and needs in my opinion cancels that as sometimes the needs are met other times not, and they also imply a lacking of some requirements. None of those I see in God!
[b] We are the branches that need the Vine, we need God, each and everyone of us.
God can do anything, with or without us, what He wants to do is use us, that isn't a need on His part.
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But because He is a God of purpose, we may sense that God ha ...[text shortened]... completely complacent about the prodigal son saying - "Who cares? I have no need whatsoever." ?[/b]
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Originally posted by @kellyjayI disagree with you, and I don't want to repeat myself with you. I believe God is God, the same yesterday, today, and forever more.
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You can disagree. I respect that.
That's good for me that you disagree with me a little.
Its humbling, praise God. But I may still present some thoughts on it.
Now the verse you allude to is this, I believe -
" Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, yes, even forever." (Hebrews 13:8)
How far back do you think "yesterday" points to ?
I think that "yesterday" points back to the day of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
He doesn't change and needs in my opinion cancels that as sometimes the needs are met other times not, and they also imply a lacking of some requirements. None of those I see in God!
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Okay.
Thanks for your thoughts on this.
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11 Sep 17
My bottom line here would be that God needs Christ.
For the fulfillment of God's eternal purpose He needs Christ.
He needs Christ in Himself. And He needs Christ wrought into His people.
All the cooperative saints of the Bible, especially in the Old Testament, as pointers, shadows, types, foreshadowing previews of the the Son of God.
God want mainly one thing - the mingling of God and man.
And Christ is the Head of that reality - that eternal purpose of God.
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13 Sep 17
kellyJay says God does not need anything. I came across a good verse for his viewpoint.
Paul preaching on Mars Hill did say -
"Neither is He served by human hands as though He needed anything in addition, since He Himself gives to all life and breath and all things." (Acts 17;25)
Aha! Could I be wrong then ? This verses says God the Creator of all things has no need. This argues for KellyJay's position.
Comment anyone?
Should I still teach that God does have a need ?
14 Sep 17
Originally posted by @sonship
kellyJay says God does not need anything. I came across a good verse for his viewpoint.
Paul preaching on Mars Hill did say -
[b] "Neither is He served by human hands as though He needed anything in addition, since He Himself gives to all life and breath and all things." (Acts 17;25)
Aha! Could I be wrong then ? This verse ...[text shortened]... s for KellyJay's position.
Comment anyone?
Should I still teach that God does have a need ?[/b]Why would God have a need?
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14 Sep 17
3 edits
Originally posted by @kellyjayIts a good question and Acts 17:25 certainly is a verse in your favor.
Why would God have a need?
"Neither is He served by human hands as though He needed anything in addition, since He Himself gives to all life and breath and all things." (Acts 17;25)
Let me ask you this.
Do you believe in the omnipresence of God ?
I mean God is everywhere. Do you believe this ?