Eternal suffering? Or eternal death?

Originally posted by Tom Wolsey
Indeed, many who hold fast to the doctrine of ET are hostile to anyone who suggests otherwise. 😕

And, here, more than anywhere I've ever seen, vice versa.

Originally posted by Tom Wolsey
My point was, using your implied standard of not placing value in the opinions of men, there really isn't any point in you submitting your conclusions. If all you do is post bible references, then that is of even less value since I have a bible and I know the references. The are are arguments for each position and both use bible references for support.

Yes, I will be here for a while. Not planning on disappearing any time soon.

Fair warning. Just by being a reasonable person here, you will draw in opposition. Yes, just for disagreeing with them.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Personally I favour mutual cooperation and love.

Perhaps that's just an atheist thing?

Ummm, no, regardless of how you want to 'paint' it.

Love is the foundation for Christianity, although one wouldn't come to that conclusion listening only to this forum.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Ok, I see 3 references so far. Is it your contention that these references support eternal torment? Here they are:

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Mark 9:47-49 " ... thrown into hell, where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. For everyon ...[text shortened]... the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night..."

You can never find consensus, can you? Even when you both hold the same opinion. You always have to be arguing with Christians to reinforce your base conjecture that all Christians are wrong.

Originally posted by Tom Wolsey
LOL

Thanks. I was a paying member here years ago. I'm so old I don't even remember what my username was. But... I'm easing myself back into this and trying to learn how to get around again. I used to post in the forums a little bit. I guess I got enamored with fb groups where you can post pics, videos, etc. so I lost interest in the stripped down ...[text shortened]... back into chess and these forums are part and parcel to the experience. Thanks for the welcome!

Hang on a sec... You're not new... and you cant remember your past user name??? Sounds a tad convenient.

Originally posted by Suzianne
You can never find consensus, can you? Even when you both hold the same opinion. You always have to be arguing with Christians to reinforce your base conjecture that all Christians are wrong.

Strange. I thought it was pretty obvious that I was posting an issue with ET doctrine, and yet I'm being asked to defend that view. I started off the message with "IF." Obviously I was trying to make a point. "If you believe ET is correct, then why did Jesus say [X]?"

As you say, some people apparently just want to argue--forget spending the time to actually understand the intent of the original message.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Hang on a sec... You're not new... and you cant remember your past user name??? Sounds a tad convenient.

Seriously! No! I can't! It's part of getting old. There are a few names I remember in here. Divegeester, Suzianne, Karoly Aczel. It's been years.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Hang on a sec... You're not new... and you cant remember your past user name??? Sounds a tad convenient.

If this is a reincarnation, his/her interests, positions and style will be clues.

PS any relation to Cardinal Thomas Wolsey?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Hang on a sec... You're not new... and you cant remember your past user name??? Sounds a tad convenient.

My name might have been didymus but I tried logging in with several passwords and nothing worked. Anyhoo. Suzianne might remember me, because I used to play with her and make jokes about iced tea (Suzianne vs Luzianne). I remember a guy named Bob that I think lived in Massachusetts -- he drove folks nuts here. I at least remember that.

Originally posted by Tom Wolsey
As you say, some people apparently just want to argue--forget spending the time to actually understand the intent of the original message.

Well I am spending the time to actually understand the intent of the original message. You said there is a strong argument for "eternal torture/torment". You are being asked: what is this strong argument?

Originally posted by JS357
If this is a reincarnation, his/her interests, positions and style will be clues.

PS any relation to Cardinal Thomas Wolsey?

Indeed. Direct descendant. Thanks for asking!

Originally posted by FMF
Well I am spending the time to actually understand the intent of the original message. You said there is a strong argument for "eternal torture/torment". You are being asked: what is this strong argument?

And I replied with 2 typical verses that proponents use to defend the position.

Originally posted by Tom Wolsey
And I replied with 2 typical verses that proponents use to defend the position.

2 verses constitutes a "strong argument" in a collection of books the size of the Bible? I am more interested in what "strong argument" there is morally speaking.

Originally posted by Tom Wolsey
Seriously! No! I can't! It's part of getting old. There are a few names I remember in here. Divegeester, Suzianne, Karoly Aczel. It's been years.

Ok man...
This is a reincarnation of sorts then,eh?
If this is true then I guess I extend divegeesters welcome. It still feels odd. I've been here for less than 10 years so... what happened man?
Are you not interested in what your old posts would have said? Or are you starting afresh?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Ok man...
This is a reincarnation of sorts then,eh?
If this is true then I guess I extend divegeesters welcome. It still feels odd. I've been here for less than 10 years so... what happened man?
Are you not interested in what your old posts would have said? Or are you starting afresh?

Ive been around 12 yrs on the spirituality forum and i never seen that name around here.