Spirituality
04 May 17
04 May 17
Originally posted by Tom Wolsey"Don't fear those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul; rather, fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
If no soul will ever be destroyed, then what is there to fear and why would Jesus even bother to mention it?
Bottom line take away from that verse is fear God over man, if you are cast into Hell,
God may be able to destroy your soul there, but many other verses have the torment there
lasting much longer.
04 May 17
Originally posted by Tom WolseyI don't see eventual annihilation as something to fear, you are here than you are not. Most
I've seen strong arguments for both sides. Eternal suffering vs. eventual annihilation.
think of death that way now anyway. The scary thing which I believe to be true is that God
when He shows His grace and mercy will do it forever, and when He shows His wrath it
will also be forever. So with His grace there will be no wrath mixed in to punish us, and
with His wrath there will be no mercy mixed in to lessen it.
The point still is, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an angry God.
04 May 17
Originally posted by Tom WolseyNo soul will ever be destroyed?
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
If no soul will ever be destroyed, then what is there to fear and why would Jesus even bother to mention it?
Is that in the Bible somewhere?
04 May 17
Originally posted by Rajk999He said "if". IF. He's presenting an argument. An argument you agreed with, last I checked, and yet you still cannot resist naysaying a Christian, even when he agrees with you. What is wrong with you? If you weren't so willing to attack him, "quick-draw" fashion, without even comprehending what he is saying, then you might actually stop and take a look at what position he takes on the issue.
No soul will ever be destroyed?
Is that in the Bible somewhere?
Originally posted by Suzianne to divegeesterTom Wolsey claims he's seen a strong argument for eternal suffering. divegeester is asking him what it is. It's just regular discussion stuff.
Can't you see that [Tom Wolsey] is not arguing "for" eternal suffering? Why must you stomp all over what he IS saying?
Some verses in favor of the eternal torment position are:
Mark 9:47-49 " ... thrown into hell, where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. For everyone will be salted with fire"
Rev 14:11 " And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night..."
I am not arguing for eternal torment. I lean in favor of annihilation but the problem is there are theologians including my mentor of many years who are far more educated on these matters, and they favor the eternal torment position. Eternal torment is the establishment, consensus view.
04 May 17
Originally posted by Tom WolseyYou are impressed by the teachings of men... clearly.
Some verses in favor of the eternal torment position are:
Mark 9:47-49 " ... thrown into hell, where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. For everyone will be salted with fire"
Rev 14:11 " And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night..."
I am not arguing for eternal torment. I le ...[text shortened]... they favor the eternal torment position. Eternal torment is the establishment, consensus view.
Originally posted by Tom WolseyTom, welcome to the forum. If you are a new member (and not someone returning under other name, which happens) then you find it quite exciting** in here at times. Seriously, welcome.
Some verses in favor of the eternal torment position are:
Mark 9:47-49 " ... thrown into hell, where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. For everyone will be salted with fire"
Rev 14:11 " And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night..."
I am not arguing for eternal torment. I le ...[text shortened]... they favor the eternal torment position. Eternal torment is the establishment, consensus view.
By "argument" I meant a reasonably concise exegesis of those and the other scriptures which went some way to overcoming the obvious moral and even logical incoherence of the eternal hell notion.
I used to be an annihilation believer but I may be changing my mind to something else which would be considered quite strange and bring me into bad odour with other posters such as @sonship, who's ears I've boxed relentlessly for a few years for holding what I call "strange beliefs".
In the meantime, I'll probably just side with you on the annihilation POV.
**combative