1. SubscriberTom Wolsey
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    04 May '17 02:52
    "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

    If no soul will ever be destroyed, then what is there to fear and why would Jesus even bother to mention it?
  2. Standard memberKellyJay
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    04 May '17 03:36
    Originally posted by Tom Wolsey
    "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

    If no soul will ever be destroyed, then what is there to fear and why would Jesus even bother to mention it?
    "Don't fear those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul; rather, fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

    Bottom line take away from that verse is fear God over man, if you are cast into Hell,
    God may be able to destroy your soul there, but many other verses have the torment there
    lasting much longer.
  3. SubscriberTom Wolsey
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    04 May '17 03:38
    I've seen strong arguments for both sides. Eternal suffering vs. eventual annihilation.
  4. Standard memberKellyJay
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    04 May '17 03:50
    Originally posted by Tom Wolsey
    I've seen strong arguments for both sides. Eternal suffering vs. eventual annihilation.
    I don't see eventual annihilation as something to fear, you are here than you are not. Most
    think of death that way now anyway. The scary thing which I believe to be true is that God
    when He shows His grace and mercy will do it forever, and when He shows His wrath it
    will also be forever. So with His grace there will be no wrath mixed in to punish us, and
    with His wrath there will be no mercy mixed in to lessen it.

    The point still is, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an angry God.
  5. Standard memberapathist
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    04 May '17 05:52
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    ... you are here than you are not. ...
    then not than [/pedantic]

    So in Valhalla are there women slaves? I've heard strong arguments both ways.
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    04 May '17 07:35
    Originally posted by Tom Wolsey
    I've seen strong arguments for both sides. Eternal suffering vs. eventual annihilation.
    Can you re-present one of the "strong arguments" for please.
  7. Standard memberRajk999
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    04 May '17 09:41
    Originally posted by Tom Wolsey
    "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

    If no soul will ever be destroyed, then what is there to fear and why would Jesus even bother to mention it?
    No soul will ever be destroyed?

    Is that in the Bible somewhere?
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    04 May '17 09:41
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Can you re-present one of the "strong arguments" for please.
    For me too please .. cant wait.
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
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    04 May '17 11:11
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    No soul will ever be destroyed?

    Is that in the Bible somewhere?
    He said "if". IF. He's presenting an argument. An argument you agreed with, last I checked, and yet you still cannot resist naysaying a Christian, even when he agrees with you. What is wrong with you? If you weren't so willing to attack him, "quick-draw" fashion, without even comprehending what he is saying, then you might actually stop and take a look at what position he takes on the issue.
  10. SubscriberSuzianne
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    04 May '17 11:122 edits
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Can you re-present one of the "strong arguments" for please.
    You too.

    Can't you see that he is not arguing "for" eternal suffering?

    Why must you stomp all over what he IS saying?
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    04 May '17 11:24
    Originally posted by Suzianne to divegeester
    Can't you see that [Tom Wolsey] is not arguing "for" eternal suffering? Why must you stomp all over what he IS saying?
    Tom Wolsey claims he's seen a strong argument for eternal suffering. divegeester is asking him what it is. It's just regular discussion stuff.
  12. SubscriberTom Wolsey
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    04 May '17 15:30
    Some verses in favor of the eternal torment position are:

    Mark 9:47-49 " ... thrown into hell, where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. For everyone will be salted with fire"

    Rev 14:11 " And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night..."

    I am not arguing for eternal torment. I lean in favor of annihilation but the problem is there are theologians including my mentor of many years who are far more educated on these matters, and they favor the eternal torment position. Eternal torment is the establishment, consensus view.
  13. Standard memberRajk999
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    04 May '17 16:02
    Originally posted by Tom Wolsey
    Some verses in favor of the eternal torment position are:

    Mark 9:47-49 " ... thrown into hell, where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. For everyone will be salted with fire"

    Rev 14:11 " And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night..."

    I am not arguing for eternal torment. I le ...[text shortened]... they favor the eternal torment position. Eternal torment is the establishment, consensus view.
    You are impressed by the teachings of men... clearly.
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    04 May '17 16:091 edit
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    You too.

    Can't you see that he is not arguing "for" eternal suffering?

    Why must you stomp all over what he IS saying?
    I just asked him a polite, on topic, relevant question...you crazy harpy. Seriously!
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    04 May '17 16:162 edits
    Originally posted by Tom Wolsey
    Some verses in favor of the eternal torment position are:

    Mark 9:47-49 " ... thrown into hell, where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. For everyone will be salted with fire"

    Rev 14:11 " And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night..."

    I am not arguing for eternal torment. I le ...[text shortened]... they favor the eternal torment position. Eternal torment is the establishment, consensus view.
    Tom, welcome to the forum. If you are a new member (and not someone returning under other name, which happens) then you find it quite exciting** in here at times. Seriously, welcome.

    By "argument" I meant a reasonably concise exegesis of those and the other scriptures which went some way to overcoming the obvious moral and even logical incoherence of the eternal hell notion.

    I used to be an annihilation believer but I may be changing my mind to something else which would be considered quite strange and bring me into bad odour with other posters such as @sonship, who's ears I've boxed relentlessly for a few years for holding what I call "strange beliefs".

    In the meantime, I'll probably just side with you on the annihilation POV.

    **combative
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