Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Proof

@ThinkOfOne

Like most if not all of the anti-evolutionists who post on this forum, it might help your case if you had even a basic understanding of abiogenesis and evolution before making posts on those subjects. The only people that might be swayed by your arguments are those just as ignorant on those subjects as you are.

C'mon ToO.

You seem to know a lot about this. Tell us how consciousness evolved into being in physical material to contemplate itself ?

@thinkofone said
Like most if not all of the anti-evolutionists who post on this forum, it might help your case if you had even a basic understanding of abiogenesis and evolution before making posts on those subjects. The only people that might be swayed by your arguments are those just as ignorant on those subjects as you are.

I don't need help with my case thank you. If you yourself know what you think we should know, would you care to comment on the info I posted?

@kellyjay said
If that were true everyone would have followed Jesus after He raised Lazarus from the dead. Instead they wanted to kill them both!

Well, one might assume that free will is lost, or at least abused, by the ignorant.

@caesar-salad said
What is evidence but that which is externally visible?

What of the magician, whose subterfuges are necessarily and by design unseen?

What does the general spectator know of the servante?

What does the garden know of the Gardener?

What if there were a lavish but extremely modest Host?

Yes, I know these are just thought-experiments of yet another human who ...[text shortened]... h random combinations of fundamental ratios until one stable instance happens to occur and flourish?

Even one opinion is enough to create a personal dogma.

@galveston75 said
I don't need help with my case thank you. If you yourself know what you think we should know, would you care to comment on the info I posted?

If I might comment upon it, and thanks for putting the time in...

A summary would I suppose be that the chances of something (the beginning of life) which has happened happening are extremely remote, but it happened anyway, one way or another.

I think I've posted here or somewhere else that for me the two great mysteries are; how life began and how consciousness began, (since thereafter anything is possible) and I don't have the answer to either. I'm not a scientist, I merely have a lay - persons interest in such things, which in the business of life tends to be only occasional!

I don't usually post in the 'Spirituality' forum, because so often it comes down to a rather pointless argument as to whether or not a god exists, and neither party to such an argument ever wins. Nobody I daresay has ever tried to calculate the odds for or against the existence of a god, because of course this would be impossible.

What it comes down to is faith, or belief in something which cannot be calculated, or seen, or proven. There is no more proof that a god exists than there is that one does not exist.

My perspective is that the endless and admirable scientific, intellectual and philosophical quest for human knowledge or understanding of 'the big questions' is something which cannot be dismissed, and when a god enters the equation the quest for knowledge and understanding ceases; thereafter there can and need only be blind acceptance of a divine creator, and that isn't something which I can buy into. Given what we now know of the natural world compared to what we knew, say, one thousand years ago, it is my 'belief' (and I use the word advisedly) that we will continue to learn, and if I burn in the fires of eternal damnation for my skepticism then so be it.

@Indonesia-Phil

I think I've posted here or somewhere else that for me the two great mysteries are; how life began and how consciousness began, (since thereafter anything is possible) and I don't have the answer to either. I'm not a scientist, I merely have a lay - persons interest in such things, which in the business of life tends to be only occasional!

Phil,

I am contemplating some of these things also, like you.
Could you give me maybe three examples of "natural selection" BEFORE the biological realm existed ?

@galveston75 said
I don't need help with my case thank you. If you yourself know what you think we should know, would you care to comment on the info I posted?

I don't need help with my case thank you. If you yourself know what you think we should know, would you care to comment on the info I posted?

As I pointed out in my post, you need to gain a basic understanding of abiogenesis and evolution for starters.

You can begin by reading the following:
https://www.learnreligions.com/abiogenesis-and-evolution-249875

Also find an article that explains natural selection. Google is your friend.


I don't need help with my case thank you.

Why are so many Christians so full of pride? Simply accept the truth and educate yourself.

@ThinkOfOne

As I pointed out in my post, you need to gain a basic understanding of abiogenesis and evolution for starters.

You seem to have good reading skills and comprehension. Could you tell me an example or two of "natural selection" before any biological systems existed ?

@sonship said
@ThinkOfOne

As I pointed out in my post, you need to gain a basic understanding of abiogenesis and evolution for starters.

You seem to have good reading skills and comprehension. Could you tell me an example or two of "natural selection" before any biological systems existed ?

Read the article at the link I provided to G75. Given the question you ask, it seems that you are conflating abiogenesis and evolutionary theory. The article speaks to this problem as well as others.

@ThinkOfOne

Read the article at the link I provided to G75. Given the question you ask, it seems that you are conflating abiogenesis and evolutionary theory. The article speaks to this problem as well as others.

You can't answer a simple question there?

I simply asked for an example of any natural selection before the biosphere.
You could also just say there was none, if there was none.

@sonship said
@ThinkOfOne

Read the article at the link I provided to G75. Given the question you ask, it seems that you are conflating abiogenesis and evolutionary theory. The article speaks to this problem as well as others.

You can't answer a simple question there?

I simply asked for an example of any natural selection before the biosphere.
You could also just say there was none, if there was none.

Your question demonstrates an ignorance of what natural selection is within the context of evolutionary theory.

Just read the article jaywill. It won't hurt you.

@ThinkOfOne

Your question demonstrates an ignorance of what natural selection is within the context of evolutionary theory.

Just read the article jaywill. It won't hurt you.

So what ignorance it demonstrates ? You can still answer unless you don't want to demonstrate your own ignorance perhaps.

If there was no natural selection before biological systems, just say so.
Was there or was there not ?

@sonship said
@ThinkOfOne

Your question demonstrates an ignorance of what natural selection is within the context of evolutionary theory.

Just read the article jaywill. It won't hurt you.

So what ignorance it demonstrates ? You can still answer unless you don't want to demonstrate your own ignorance perhaps.

If there was no natural selection before biological systems, just say so.
Was there or was there not ?

Okay. Don't read the article.

Why you and others choose to allow your pride to get in the way and remain ignorant is beyond me.

@caissad4 said
So Satan guy is the one who is really in control, not Jehovah guy.
There is apparently no end to nonsensical beliefs.
Can you provide extraordinary proof of the existence of Satan guy ?

Satan would be the person who rules earth in much of doctrine. Of course, this is a characterization and descriptive language and not some overly cautious couching of it.

This is based on the testimony of the Saints and the internal theology of Christianity, and it is not something that we'd necessarily point to as "evidence" of God, or would we suggest it is something that ought to just be researched and verified before we talk about God, right.

It's really an interesting topic, though.

I think that every case of demonic possession or diabolic influence that would be brought up would be dismissed as mental problems, though, so I am not sure if we would make any progress there.

@ThinkOfOne

Okay. Don't read the article.

Why you and others choose to allow your pride to get in the way and remain ignorant is beyond me.

I didn't say I would not read some article.
Are you slipping in a little red herring ad hom to throw things off track for a dodge of dealing with the question ?

Pride much or little shouldn't hinder you from replying conversational style to the simple question.

" I'd answer but you have too much pride. " That's your handy dodge ?

Somebody else then.
Who can tell a really, really proud person where or not natural selection occurred any biological systems existed ??