@indonesia-phil saidThanks for your comment here too. Let me say this about creation. If I were to go solely on what we all see in the world today with the condition of the world or should I say with humans that are bent on ruining it and with the condition of almost all religions that is hard to swallow with their hypocritical ways and of their dark history and some of the basic crap that goes on with them, I to would turn my back on that and would wonder if there was a God, how in the world would he just sit back and let this happen in his name? He too see's the hypocrisy and all the unjust things that so many of the so called religions do with a bible in their hands.
If I might comment upon it, and thanks for putting the time in...
A summary would I suppose be that the chances of something (the beginning of life) which has happened happening are extremely remote, but it happened anyway, one way or another.
I think I've posted here or somewhere else that for me the two great mysteries are; how life began and how consciousnes ...[text shortened]... continue to learn, and if I burn in the fires of eternal damnation for my skepticism then so be it.
Then with God not obviously making himself easily seen so to say, yes there seems to be a big hole where if there is a God, he should be there for all to see. And we would want him to clearly explain this thing called creation that he supposedly was in charge of.
So I do get it because as humans want answers. We all want to know the where's and why's and that's why we go out and dig in the dirt or look into space trying to find them.
Personally if I didn't believe in a God I would probably feel lost or wonder why we are here. But I still don't believe I would be drawn to evolution as an answer. Maybe I feel that way because of the extra exploring I've done to see what it's all about because I do love all that I see here on earth and in the heavens. Just way to much that is out there to pass of as just it happened their, and even mores with this planet we live on and all the life on it. Now if all the life was all the same and looked the same then evolution might have an answer. But no way with all the life forms here did it just evolve. Plus the complexities of all life here is way beyond it "just happening". There had to be a mind behind it all that is way beyond anything we could ever design as humans
Has anyone here ever heard of or done a little research on an insect called a bombardier beetle? Check out this link and after checking this out, explain how this just happened by chance or it evolved?
https://ncse.com/cej/2/1/bombardier-beetle-myth-exploded
@sonship saidI do not know. I would never claim to know.
Caissad4,
Is there any evidence of a ancient "prebiotic soup" or chemical rich body of water where life first formed on earth?
What evidence is there for this rich "prebiotic soup" ?
What I would like to see is extraordinary proof for your extraordinary claim that a god or gods exist.
@sonship saidSince you're continuing to ask the question, either you still haven't read the article or you didn't understand it. Which?
@ThinkOfOneOkay. Don't read the article.
Why you and others choose to allow your pride to get in the way and remain ignorant is beyond me.
I didn't say I would not read some article.
Are you slipping in a little red herring ad hom to throw things off track for a dodge of dealing with the question ?
Pride much or little shouldn't hinder ...[text shortened]... eally, really proud person where or not natural selection occurred any biological systems existed ??
@caissad4 saidWhy would God be extra ordinary if He is the sole source for all things? Seems to me you have to produce some other reason for everything to be here without a transcendent cause for the universe. After all more believe in a god that doesn’t. The God has the most believers.
I do not know. I would never claim to know.
What I would like to see is extraordinary proof for your extraordinary claim that a god or gods exist.
Where is your explanation?
@kellyjay saidWhy would I need to produce another reason for something which I admittedly do not know the reason for ?
Why would God be extra ordinary if He is the sole source for all things? Seems to me you have to produce some other reason for everything to be here without a transcendent cause for the universe. After all more believe in a god that doesn’t. The God has the most believers.
Where is your explanation?
Just because a majority of people believe anything is not a valid argument.
Where is your extraordinary proof for your extraordinary claim ?
@caissad4 saidSo do you take some like, hard agnostic stance... And you just don't want to theorize at all about the beginning of life on Earth?
I do not know. I would never claim to know.
What I would like to see is extraordinary proof for your extraordinary claim that a god or gods exist.
What keeps you from slipping into a hardened solipsism?
@philokalia saidNot at all. But I prefer not to engage in idle speculation .
So do you take some like, hard agnostic stance... And you just don't want to theorize at all about the beginning of life on Earth?
What keeps you from slipping into a hardened solipsism?
@galveston75 saidYes, well I've unlocked the horns now, and appreciate any thoughtful contributions to the big questions.
Thanks for your comment here too. Let me say this about creation. If I were to go solely on what we all see in the world today with the condition of the world or should I say with humans that are bent on ruining it and with the condition of almost all religions that is hard to swallow with their hypocritical ways and of their dark history and some of the basic crap that g ...[text shortened]... just happened by chance or it evolved?
https://ncse.com/cej/2/1/bombardier-beetle-myth-exploded
I don't have a god, but reckon myself to be a fairly 'spiritual' person. I get off on sunsets, music, SCUBA diving and such, and even living in my tropical home is a kind of spiritual experience, and I truly love my friends and family. I found the love of a wonderful woman when we were both still teenagers, and we're as in love now as we ever were.
Of course I have 'lost' days, but I realize well enough that I'm one of the lucky ones; I'm not the three year old kid with an incurable brain tumor, and I'm lucky enough to have been born in a time of relative peace in my home country. (England). I was born poor, but that's given me a healthy respect for all things material, despite my current and much improved circumstances and I still hold that less can often be more. We travel a lot but otherwise we live carefully.
So, lucky bastard, I've got no ax to grind with the world, and life is good, as long as it's mine to live. After that, well, who knows? May your god be with you.
@caissad4 saidI'm not the one in disagreement with the majority. I'm content in believing there is a transcendent cause for the universe, I don't need any extraordinary proof, I'm quite happy with the universe as is. If you think more is required, well look for it, but you only get as much as everyone else.
Why would I need to produce another reason for something which I admittedly do not know the reason for ?
Just because a majority of people believe anything is not a valid argument.
Where is your extraordinary proof for your extraordinary claim ?
@sonship saidThere are hot geysers on the ocean bed, teaming with primitive life forms and organic molecules. Humans have sent robots down there to investigate. That’s the evidence: the most primitive forms are still there. There is energy, there are organic molecules. All the ingredients.
Caissad4,
Is there any evidence of a ancient "prebiotic soup" or chemical rich body of water where life first formed on earth?
What evidence is there for this rich "prebiotic soup" ?
https://www.whoi.edu/press-room/news-release/study-tests-theory-that-life-originated-at-deep-sea-vents/
As the article makes clear, the exact chemical composition has not yet been detected. But at least we know what to look for.
Do let us know when you develop a God detector.
@sonship saidOf course there was none, sonship.
@ThinkOfOneRead the article at the link I provided to G75. Given the question you ask, it seems that you are conflating abiogenesis and evolutionary theory. The article speaks to this problem as well as others.
You can't answer a simple question there?
I simply asked for an example of any natural selection before the biosphere.
You could also just say there was none, if there was none.
Before biological organisms existed, how could they 'select'? Do you understand what natural selection is?
1 edit
@caissad4 saidYou don't have to produce squat and I'm not asking you to, you are the one here foaming at the mouth. Anything said to you is ignored and blown off, you are not here to find evidence, you are just here to belittle. You can sit in your claims and stay there or actually open your eyes and see the universe around you its up to you.
Why would I need to produce another reason for something which I admittedly do not know the reason for ?
Just because a majority of people believe anything is not a valid argument.
Where is your extraordinary proof for your extraordinary claim ?
1 edit
I do not know. I would never claim to know.
What I would like to see is extraordinary proof for your extraordinary claim that a god or gods exist.
I think we should be able to at least TRADE questions.
Do you want only a lopsided "you have all the burden of proof" conversation.
Above I wrote that if ANYTHING exists, SOMETHING must have always necessarily existed for eternity.
Why?
Because, from nothing, nothing comes. Nothing can be non-existent and create itself. It would have to exist in order to create. But if it didn't exist it would not be existing in order to do anything. How could anything not exist and exist at the same time in the same way to being about its own existence?
We see many things exist.
They could not create themselves or they would be existing before they existed. How else can something be the cause of its own creation?
So if ANYTHING exists, this proves that something had to have brought other things to exist before they existed. It would have to be something that owes ITS existence to nothing prior, nothing before, nothing else transcending. The buck of being must stop somewhere.
So that ever existing, uncreated ground of being and ground of the existence of everything else besides itself, I say is God.
Since this is a two way questioning, I now present another question for you.
What would you say is the source of information carried in a typical DNA molecule ?
There is code their. The arrangement of acid bases conveys information about how to build and fold proteins.
What is the source of the information conveyed by the programming code in the DNA molecule?