Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Proof

@sonship said
If you don't know or cannot determine or enforce what ought to happen and no one else can what is the moral purpose of your alternative ?

Already answered.

@FMF

As for how I perceive and explain my personhood and my individual human spirit

Your individual human spirit ?
Where did that come from ?

How come you don't believe that your individual human spirit is a superstitious matter?

@sonship said
How come you don't believe that your individual human spirit is a superstitious matter?

Because I do not assert that there is supernatural causality involved.

@sonship said

Your individual human spirit ?
Where did that come from ?

As I said, I have written about it in depth countless times. The way I explain it has not changed. Refer to that.

@sonship said
Do you have the authority and the power to determine and enforce what you say ought to happen ?

I don't arrange to have my wife and children tortured in flames for disobeying me.

@FMF

"Ought to"?

Stop projecting your superstition onto me.

We all die eventually. That's what happens to all mankind.

I didn't ask you what will happen. You condemn the teaching of eternal punishment. It "ought not happen" is your whole line of logic.

Is there an ultimate moral law by which you know what ought and ought not happen ?

@sonship said
I didn't ask you what will happen. You condemn the teaching of eternal punishment. It "ought not happen" is your whole line of logic.

If hateful vengeance like that you describe is morally incoherent, then I can't pretend that it's coherent. If it's coherent to you for some reason, then live your life in the shadow of that, be my guest.

FMF says

We all die eventually. That's what happens to all mankind.

Do you have absolute knowledge about this concerning every single human being who as ever existed or ever WILL exist on the earth ?

Are you saying you are omniscience and KNOW that no exceptions ever have or ever WILL exist to -

"We all die eventually. That's what happens to all mankind. "

@sonship said
Is there an ultimate moral law by which you know what ought and ought not happen ?

"Ultimate"?

You mean like a set of moral laws about "sins" and about "torment in eternal burning flames" dictated to humans by a supernatural being that believers cannot prove exists [to non-believers] and the nature of which humans cannot agree ?

You mean "ultimate" in that sense?

@sonship said
Do you have absolute knowledge about this concerning every single human being who as ever existed or ever WILL exist on the earth ?

I'd say so yes. I've given it enough attention and I would say my certainty is more or less "knowledge", for want of a better word. Your personal attraction to notions that humans have everlasting life does not create any moral imperatives that apply to anyone other than you.

@sonship said
"We all die eventually. That's what happens to all mankind. "

This is what I believe. This is the reality which underpins my life. You are free to take notions of immortality and being deified after you die and use them to underpin your life.

@sonship said
Are you saying you are omniscience and KNOW that no exceptions ever have or ever WILL exist [all die]

I have enough certainty about it to say that I find your notions to the contrary to have no intellectual or spiritual traction with me or any impact on my decisions about what I understand to be 'living life well'.

@sonship said
Are you saying you are omniscience and KNOW that ..

Neither of us is omniscient. Neither of us is sharing perspectives that are omniscient. Your insinuation or claim that your perspective is somehow imbued with omniscience is a rhetorical gimmick.

@fmf said
If hateful vengeance like that you describe is morally incoherent, then I can't pretend that it's coherent. If it's coherent to you for some reason, then live your life in the shadow of that, be my guest.

Isn't the difference of opinion here something to do with value judgments, though?

It is not incoherent.

Incoherent is defined as:

adj.Lacking cohesion, connection, or harmony; not coherent.

You could say that it is unjust or something, and make an argument.

But you're just not using English words right in this moment.

@fmf said
I'd say so yes. I've given it enough attention and I would say my certainty is more or less "knowledge", for want of a better word. Your personal attraction to notions that humans have everlasting life does not create any moral imperatives that apply to anyone other than you.

That's right:

Our moral obligations are solely for ourselves.

However, the obligations that God would put on us are for everyone.