@sonship said"Won't be enjoyable"?
I believe that there is an ultimate Creator, and ultimate Savior, and an ultimate Judge. And one, I said ONE ... of the things He has told us (among many other wonderful things about forgiveness) is that to exist eternally without being reconciled to Him won't be enjoyable.
Isn't it a case of being tormented in burning flames for eternity?
What's with the euphemism?
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidActually unless you can show otherwise all of your opinions and opposition to the Bible are all made up. The scriptures are revealed revelation from God to man. As an Atheist are not all of your truth and beliefs something you come up with as you go, so you admit all of your truth is “made up? Not if but is!
If the Bible is made up, everyone.
@sonship saidWhere do non-believers "admit" this?
It seems you want to argue that you just CANNOT believe in God. But also want to compare God to a parent in whose family you admit you belong.
It is surely you who is wanting "to compare God to a parent".
Do you think parents burning their children on their arms and faces with lit cigarettes can sometimes be morally justifiable if it deters or punishes thoughtcrimes?
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Neither of us know.
Right. And I have to consider One Jesus Christ - His life and words and that I believe He DID rise from the dead.
I have to consider seriously His authority on the matter of human destiny. A perfect man rises from the dead, being completely vindicated. How can I not take seriously what He explains?
Consciousness is possible evidence for a creator I think, while the moral dimension we have today i believe is something that has evolved.
Whenever I imagine evolution moving being towards a higher and higher moral sense, I cannot shake the feeling that there is a GOAL that was already in existence BEFORE life began to evolve.
But that would have to be the eternal God.
Though the questions about eternal punishment are not easy,
1.) I don't think making God out to be eager to do so is righteous. It does no help to imagine no other purpose of God to torture.
2.) I don't believe not seeing (not believing) how seriously Christ took our need to be justified, redeemed, forgiven by a loving God is right.
3.) I don't believe God could bestow upon His creation a higher sense of moral purpose then He had to be able to give.
The cause cannot be less then the effect. It doesn't make sense that God doesn't know what ought to be morally yet He bestowed upon His creatures that sense.
If you turn out to be wrong, it will be interesting to see you argue with the One who gave you the ability to argue at all.
@sonship saidNo one is stopping you. But the very notion that people who do not believe he rose from the dead will be violently brutalized by a hateful God in some kind of demented revenge is ludicrous.
Right. And I have to consider One Jesus Christ - His life and words and that I believe He DID rise from the dead.
Believe it if you want to, but it disqualifies you as a moral commentator. If believing I am going to be tormented in burning flames for eternity helps you to believe you will be deified as a godman after you die, go for it.
But your depraved notions of "morality" and "justice" do not create any moral imperatives.
@sonship saidIf taking the story seriously serves some purpose in your life, all well and good. "A perfect man rises from the dead, being completely vindicated" and he will be present, looking on as non-believers are tortured 650,000 years after they died and forever and ever after that. It makes no moral sense.
I have to consider seriously His authority on the matter of human destiny. A perfect man rises from the dead, being completely vindicated. How can I not take seriously what He explains?
@sonship saidIf you and I are reincarnated as cockroaches, as Dasa used to 'threaten' would happen if we did not subscribe to his religious beliefs, will it be "interesting" for you?
If you turn out to be wrong, it will be interesting to see you argue with the One who gave you the ability to argue at all.
@sonship said1, 2 and 3 above are spammy waffle that has nothing at all to do with any moral justification of " eternal punishment".
Though the questions about eternal punishment are not easy,
1.) I don't think making God out to be eager to do so is righteous. It does no help to imagine no other purpose of God to torture.
2.) I don't believe not seeing (not believing) how seriously Christ took our need to be justified, redeemed, forgiven by a loving God is right.
3.) I don't believe God could bestow upon His creation a higher sense of moral purpose then He had to be able to give.
@sonship saidYes, maybe so. Like I said. But it doesn't mean the Jews were the "chosen people" or that the Book of Revelation was anything other than a kind of hoax carried out by corporate Christianity. Or that Muhammed met Gabriel. Or that all the Hindu Gods are real. The fact there may be a creator doesn't mean said creator has communicated with you or that you know anything about him.
Whenever I imagine evolution moving being towards a higher and higher moral sense, I cannot shake the feeling that there is a GOAL that was already in existence BEFORE life began to evolve.
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If taking the story seriously serves some purpose in your life, all well and good.
That is hypocritical of you. If it is a lie then it is no good to me or to anyone else.
A condescending pat on the head is hypocritical if my believing in a lie is what I live for.
As to 800 years 1500 years ?
None of us know what it is like to be in eternity. Whether there will be a sense of passing time, I really don't know.
You do what you have to do.
I am going to believe the Gospel and tell others as Jesus charged His disciples to do.
@sonship saidIf it gives you a sense of purpose in life, if it helps you come to terms with the finality of death, and to do good works and live a morally sound life, then it is good for you and those around you.
That is hypocritical of you. If it is a lie then it is no good to me or to anyone else.