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If it gives you a sense of purpose in life, if it helps you come to terms with the finality of death, and to do good works and live a morally sound life, then it is good for you and those around you.
That is hypocritical of you.
If the Gospel is a LIE, then it is no good that I live for a LIE and tell others they should live for a LIE.
@sonship saidClassic dodge. I didn't ask about the "sense of passing time". I asked about the moral purpose of hateful secret vengeance at 800 years, 1,500 years, 30,000 years, and 150,000 years. But you are going to dodge it. It's no mystery why.
As to 800 years 1500 years ?
None of us know what it is like to be in eternity. Whether there will be a sense of passing time, I really don't know.
@sonship saidI am going to consider all the crisp and clear and engaging-you responses that I am giving to your 'points' that you are studiously blanking out. I don't have to do it, but I will.
You do what you have to do.
I am going to believe the Gospel and tell others as Jesus charged His disciples to do.
@sonship saidNo, it's not hypocrisy. You are using the word correctly.
That is hypocritical of you.
If the Gospel is a LIE, then it is no good that I live for a LIE and tell others they should live for a LIE.
If believing the Gospel is true gives you a sense of meaning in life, if it helps you come to terms with the finite nature of our existence, and encourages you to do good works in accordance with the Gospel and to live a morally sound life, then it is good for you and those around you. It might also be good in the same ways for the "others" you tell about it.
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"Won't be enjoyable"?
That is my personal way of saying that I do not know for certain that EVERYONE whose name is not recorded in the book of life will experience the same thing to the same degree.
I have no strong opinions about this. I just don't know and would err on the side of caution. I am pretty certain eternal separation from God will in no terms be enjoyable.
Isn't it a case of being tormented in burning flames for eternity?
It is the case, I think, that eternal separation from God is to be avoided. No one should expect that he will be happy in that state.
What's with the euphemism?
I have said before - it could be that eternal damnation is taught in terms of its worst condition. Ie. Rev. 14.
I have said before that Richter's Island is a prison in New York State. If you want your children not to go to Richter's Island you might describe it in its worst form. To avoid the entire place, the entire situation, with no foolish expectation that some places there may be ok, that would be the goal of the warning parent.
The lake of fire, the eternal separation from God is something to be saved from period. I don't know that all the ones lost to go to that state suffer to the same degree.
This subject is perculiar. The more a Christian explains himself about it to objectors, often, the more the objector exploits that willingness to mean the Christian loves the subject and is eager for sinners to be lost.
It comes to a point with clever skeptics that it is counter productive. As I try to explain more, more some debaters will portray me as loving about the Bible ONLY the matter of eternal punishment.
Then you have a caricature of the Gospel. For the New Testament goes on for pages and pages concerning other important things to believe.
@sonship saidHe was a Jewish rabbi who was executed for sedition by the Romans. Decades later, some people created a cult of personality centred him that marginalized the Jews. To me, your bogus choice ... "either he was a madman, a liar, or the Son of God" is just another rhetorical gimmick. I suggest you use it when preaching to the choir and you can pretend that it was some clincher you dazzled a non-believer with.
I m talking about the Person of Jesus.
Either He was a madman, a liar, or the Son of God.
@sonship saidI'll try again. What's with the "Won't be enjoyable" euphemism?
@FMF"Won't be enjoyable"?
That is my personal way of saying that I do not know for certain that EVERYONE whose name is not recorded in the book of life will experience the same thing to the same degree.
I have no strong opinions about this. I just don't know and would err on the side of caution. I am pretty certain eternal separation from God wil ...[text shortened]... pel. For the New Testament goes on for pages and pages concerning other important things to believe.
@sonship saidYou have been talking for years and years about people being tormented in burning flames for eternity. If you are now backing away from this depraved nonsense, good for you.
I have no strong opinions about this. I just don't know and would err on the side of caution. I am pretty certain eternal separation from God will in no terms be enjoyable.
@sonship saidThis subject is perculiar. The more a Christian explains himself about it to objectors, often, the more the objector exploits that willingness to mean the Christian loves the subject and is eager for sinners to be lost.
It comes to a point with clever skeptics that it is counter productive. As I try to explain more, more some debaters will portray me as loving about the Bible ONLY the matter of eternal punishment.
Then you have a caricature of the Gospel. For the New Testament goes on for pages and pages concerning other important things to believe.
Ah diddums. You are what you post, sonship. You are responsible for what you propagate.
@sonship saidYou don't know some stuff about your ideology, so what? The "something to be saved from" is a bit of a self-defeating moral silliness. One "must" believe in something that one does not find credible in order to be "saved" from something one does not find credible. You really think I am supposed to believe this piece of mundane convoluted ideology came from a god or gods?
The lake of fire, the eternal separation from God is something to be saved from period. I don't know that all the ones lost to go to that state suffer to the same degree.
@sonship saidHow is a non-credible threat about supposedly being supernaturally tortured in burning flames for eternity for not believing in Jesus supposed to have any deterrence effect on non-believers? If it's not credible enough to persuade non-believers to believe it or act upon it, what would be the moral purpose of carrying it out in secret, meaning the still living non-believers know nothing about it?
I have said before that Richter's Island is a prison in New York State. If you want your children not to go to Richter's Island you might describe it in its worst form. To avoid the entire place, the entire situation, with no foolish expectation that some places there may be ok, that would be the goal of the warning parent.
@sonship saidI imagine that you think the Book of Ecclesiastes is worthwhile despite clearly not being intended as literal truth. I don't think the literal truth of the Gospels is entirely necessary for them to not be lies.
@FMFIf it gives you a sense of purpose in life, if it helps you come to terms with the finality of death, and to do good works and live a morally sound life, then it is good for you and those around you.
That is hypocritical of you.
If the Gospel is a LIE, then it is no good that I live for a LIE and tell others they should live for a LIE.
@kellyjay saidGoody, goody .
Actually unless you can show otherwise all of your opinions and opposition to the Bible are all made up. The scriptures are revealed revelation from God to man. As an Atheist are not all of your truth and beliefs something you come up with as you go, so you admit all of your truth is “made up? Not if but is!
Do you have any proof for that assertion ??
Somehow I doubt that any proof is forthcoming .