God created us

If you want to hold God responsible for creating us with a thirst for free will, then I can't argue with that. It's an obvious fact. Beyond that, we still made (and continue to make) moral choices.

Edit: Do you (and the countless others that argue your point which is valid to a degree) realize that by arguing against mankind being created with a capacity for sin, you are effectively arguing against free will?

Are you saying that for God to be good and just, He should have created us without the free will to make our own moral choices? Yes or no.

Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
With all due respect, you apparently don't understand the Garden of Eden story and what it teaches us.

God created us without the knowledge of evil. Adam and Eve were given a clear choice. Either live without the knowledge of evil, without the free will to commit evil---or---gain the knowledge of evil for which you will surely suffer and die. Our p ...[text shortened]... ly chose free will, suffering, and death.

"Give me liberty or give me death!" - Patrick Henry

I am not Adam.
My life will not be decided by his 'error'.

I don't buy that narrative anymore.

Do you (and the countless others that argue your point which is valid to a degree) realize that by arguing against mankind being created with a capacity for sin, you are effectively arguing against free will?

Are you saying that for God to be good and just, He should have created us without the free will to make our own moral choices? Yes or no.

Edit: And again, He did at least create us initially without the knowledge (thus capacity) of evil. He just didn't take away our free will to obtain it. Adam and Eve attained it, and genetically, we are all tainted by that choice. You are who you are, but, you have the knowledge of evil, and wouldn't if the choice wasn't made by your most distant ancestors.

Originally posted by @sonship
Another prayer for the weary of corruption:

" Lord Jesus, I cannot change my lustful self. I am tired of bragging about my degradation and lack of self control. I am tired of wearing my sins as a bragging badge, my shame as a trophy.

Lord Jesus cleanse me, forgive me, come into me and empower me to think right, feel right, live right by You ...[text shortened]... art Victorious Lord Jesus. I love You. I need You to be my victorious overcomer in me."

cant even address me directly. weak. pathetic, really

Originally posted by @chaney3
I am not Adam.
My life will not be decided by his 'error'.

I don't buy that narrative anymore.

Accept or reject the offer of forgiveness by God or not, no one is going to beg you to do that.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Accept or reject the offer of forgiveness by God or not, no one is going to beg you to do that.

Forgiveness for what?
Adam's decision?

Originally posted by @chaney3
Forgiveness for what?
Adam's decision?

For your sins that you will give an account for. Adam has his own issues to deal with, as
you do when your actions turn others away from God. The thing you will have to deal
with is that of the 2nd Adam, Jesus Christ, He who won our salvation, through the
beating, the shame, the nails, for taking all of our sins upon Himself, He became sin to
save us from our sins. He deserves the reward of His suffering for us by our turning our
lives to Him, He should receive glory for what He did by becoming our Lord and savior,
and by our living now for His honor and glory turning us away from our sins. Jesus
deserves us, we do not deserve Him.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
For your sins that you will give an account for. Adam has his own issues to deal with, as
you do when your actions turn others away from God. The thing you will have to deal
with is that of the 2nd Adam, Jesus Christ, He who won our salvation, through the
beating, the shame, the nails, for taking all of our sins upon Himself, He became sin to
save us f ...[text shortened]... or His honor and glory turning us away from our sins. Jesus
deserves us, we do not deserve Him.

What sins have you committed that make you feel you don't "deserve Jesus"?

Are you that awful of a person?

Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
Do you (and the countless others that argue your point which is valid to a degree) realize that by arguing against mankind being created with a capacity for sin, you are effectively arguing against free will?

Are you saying that for God to be good and just, He should have created us without the free will to make our own moral choices? Yes or no.

E ...[text shortened]... ve the knowledge of evil, and wouldn't if the choice wasn't made by your most distant ancestors.

Do you (and the countless others that argue your point which is valid to a degree) realize that by arguing against mankind being created with a capacity for sin, you are effectively arguing against free will?

Are you saying that for God to be good and just, He should have created us without the free will to make our own moral choices? Yes or no.


Do you (and the countless others that argue the point) realize that by arguing against mankind being created with the capacity to cease to sin, you are effectively arguing against free will?

Are you saying that for God to be good and just, He should have created us without the free will to make our own moral choices? Yes or no.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
[b]Do you (and the countless others that argue your point which is valid to a degree) realize that by arguing against mankind being created with a capacity for sin, you are effectively arguing against free will?

Are you saying that for God to be good and just, He should have created us without the free will to make our own moral choices? Yes or no. ...[text shortened]... just, He should have created us without the free will to make our own moral choices? Yes or no.

Fantastic point!

But isn't that what this is really about? The struggle against our want for sin? Some of us give up the fight and are total slaves to sin, while others fight against it and keep it at bay.

edit: I really had to thumb up your post. That was a kick ass rebuttal and it caught me a little off-guard. Impressive sir!

Originally posted by @chaney3
What sins have you committed that make you feel you don't "deserve Jesus"?

Are you that awful of a person?

Not a single one of us deserves Jesus, you think you do? The Son of God sinless,
became a man, lived a sinless life, and still went through everything He did for the love of
God for us, Jesus actually became sin so we could be forgiven. Not because we deserve
to be forgiven by God, but because God loves us, not because we are so good, we are
dead in our sins without God in our lives.

We are so steeped in sin it is hardly noticeable, if we lie, we steal, if we take advantage,
cheat, call others names, be anything other than loving to others we sin. If we hold back
that which we should give, if we fail to pay that what we owe, if we damage anyone. Have
called anyone a fool Jesus said that alone puts you in danger of hell. The things said
here to one another is far worse than fool. We are sinners before a Holy God, and we
will give an account for every word, everything done in secret, all of our lives will be
open for all to see. I need a savior, I don't deserve Jesus' love and grace, but it isn't
because of me, its because of Him, He is our sure foundation.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
[b]Do you (and the countless others that argue your point which is valid to a degree) realize that by arguing against mankind being created with a capacity for sin, you are effectively arguing against free will?

Are you saying that for God to be good and just, He should have created us without the free will to make our own moral choices? Yes or no. ...[text shortened]... just, He should have created us without the free will to make our own moral choices? Yes or no.

Wow, impressive.
I would submit to you that when God becomes a part of our lives, our wills then turn away
from sin into wanting to serve God, wanting to be loving, wanting to do righteous acts. All
of that while living in a body that is sinful and selfish wanting what it wants. It is an up hill
battle that has been won for us by Jesus Christ. The sanctification of us by having the
Holy Spirit in our lives is a work of God, for God's glory, turning a sinner into one who
repents of their sins.

Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
Fantastic point!

But isn't that what this is really about? The struggle against our want for sin? Some of us give up the fight and are total slaves to sin, while others fight against it and keep it at bay.

edit: I really had to thumb up your post. That was a kick ass rebuttal and it caught me a little off-guard. Impressive sir!

Have to say I'm surprised at your response.

Seems like the vast majority of Christians believe that no man is created with the capacity to cease to sin. That it is impossible for man to cease to sin, i.e., make himself righteous. This concept is nonsense of course and is not contained in the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.

A man without the capacity to cease to sin no more has (moral) free will than a man without the capacity to sin.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
Have to say I'm surprised at your response.

Seems like the vast majority of Christians believe that no man is created with the capacity to cease to sin. That it is impossible for man to cease to sin, i.e., make himself righteous. This concept is nonsense of course and is not contained in the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.

A man witho ...[text shortened]... e capacity to cease to sin no more has (moral) free will than a man without the capacity to sin.

Man cannot make himself righteous, only God can do that. We cannot/will not even come
to Jesus Christ if it were not for the Father drawing us to Him. We can obey God, follow
God's Spirit and in doing so will not sin.

pocket dial /// on purpose!! ... lotta fun