1. Joined
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    27 Oct '13 12:491 edit
    I understand that the arch enemy of God is Satan. What I have never understood is why Satan is seen as so bad.

    I also think that, if Satan is really devious, as suggested in the Bible, the one thing he would try and do is convince us he is God.

    To put some objectivity on this, please list all the things that God does or condones as evidenced by the Bible and that is or would be illegal or a crime based on a human view of these issues. Please also do the same for Satan.

    Once we have a list we shall compare and see who comes out best. I acknowledge that some of these illegalities and crimes will depend on where you live, but that will apply to Satan just as much.

    I shall start.

    God

    1 Genocide
    2 Infanticide
    3 Slavery
    4 Murder
    5 Punishment without due process
    6 Punishment without hope of parole
    7 Torture

    Satan

    Can't think of any at the moment.

    Over to you.
  2. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
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    27 Oct '13 13:03
    Originally posted by Rank outsider
    I understand that the arch enemy of God is Satan. What I have never understood is why Satan is seen as so bad.

    I also think that, if Satan is really devious, as suggested in the Bible, the one thing he would try and do is convince us he is God.

    To put some objectivity on this, please list all the things that God does or condones as evidenced b ...[text shortened]... without hope of parole
    7 Torture

    Satan

    Can't think of any at the moment.

    Over to you.
    It's clear that Satan is an employee of God. He does God's dirty work, so God can keep his hands clean (well...at least most of the time). Since God could (I presume) vanquish Satan at the blink of an eye, it should seem painfully obvious that since he doesn't, they must have reached some agreement between them.
  3. Joined
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    27 Oct '13 13:201 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    It's clear that Satan is an employee of God. He does God's dirty work, so God can keep his hands clean (well...at least most of the time). Since God could (I presume) vanquish Satan at the blink of an eye, it should seem painfully obvious that since he doesn't, they must have reached some agreement between them.
    You say he does God's dirty work. What, exactly, has he done? Before we condemn him on the say-so of God, let us at least know what he is charged with.
  4. SubscriberPianoman1
    Nil desperandum
    Seedy piano bar
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    27 Oct '13 14:27
    Originally posted by Rank outsider
    I understand that the arch enemy of God is Satan. What I have never understood is why Satan is seen as so bad.

    I also think that, if Satan is really devious, as suggested in the Bible, the one thing he would try and do is convince us he is God.

    To put some objectivity on this, please list all the things that God does or condones as evidenced b ...[text shortened]... without hope of parole
    7 Torture

    Satan

    Can't think of any at the moment.

    Over to you.
    I can add a few more of the Old Testament God's faults:

    1) petty
    2) unjust
    3) vindictive
    4) bloodthirsty
    5) ethnic cleanser
    6) misogynistic
    7) homophobic
    8) racist
    9) infanticidal
    10) genocidal
    11) filicidal
    12) pestilential
    13) megalomaniacal
    14) sadomasochistic
    15) malevolent
    16) bully
    17) capricious

    Satan?

    Er...um....just give me a few seconds.....well....
  5. Joined
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    27 Oct '13 14:28
    Originally posted by Rank outsider
    I understand that the arch enemy of God is Satan. What I have never understood is why Satan is seen as so bad.

    I also think that, if Satan is really devious, as suggested in the Bible, the one thing he would try and do is convince us he is God.

    To put some objectivity on this, please list all the things that God does or condones as evidenced b ...[text shortened]... without hope of parole
    7 Torture

    Satan

    Can't think of any at the moment.

    Over to you.
    Satan promoted:

    1. Genocide
    2. Infanticide
    3. Slavery
    4. Murder
    5. Torture.

    God forbid the Almighty brings judgment to end the party.
  6. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
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    27 Oct '13 16:001 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Satan promoted:

    1. Genocide
    2. Infanticide
    3. Slavery
    4. Murder
    5. Torture.

    God forbid the Almighty brings judgment to end the party.
    God is the one who committed genocide during the Great Flood, not Satan.

    In the Old Testament, God used to do more of his own dirty work. They didn't prattle on about Satan as much then. But in the New Testament, God decided he wanted to be the good guy and contracted out his dirty work to Satan. Of course, if God were displeased with that arrangement, he could annihilate Satan instantly. The fact that he keeps him on indicates that the arrangement is much to his liking. Or at least that it's an arrangement that he finds useful.
  7. Dublin Ireland
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    27 Oct '13 16:09
    Originally posted by rwingett
    It's clear that Satan is an employee of God. He does God's dirty work, so God can keep his hands clean (well...at least most of the time). Since God could (I presume) vanquish Satan at the blink of an eye, it should seem painfully obvious that since he doesn't, they must have reached some agreement between them.
    Allegedly it is said that Satan called God a liar when God told man
    that he will die if he eats the fruit that was forbidden.

    Satan allegedly told man that he would not die but that mans eyes
    would be opened and he would have the knowledge that God did
    not want man to have.


    God's alleged counter argument was that man will not survive without God.

    Without God man was doomed to destroy himself.

    Satan's alleged argument is that man does not need God.

    So, allegedly we have this trial period going on whereby it is left
    to see if man can live and survive successfully without God.


    To date man is allegedly doing a bad job and God is allegedly waiting
    for the right time to come back and intervene before man really loses
    it and is on the brink of destruction.

    At that point allegedly, God will say:

    "See?" "I told you that without me you would ruin yourselves".

    So he attempts then to prove Satan wrong that man can live without God.




    I think that this is the whole point of the Bible from
    Genesis to Revelation.

    God is trying to prove to man that man cannot live without him and that
    Satan is wrong.




    So that's it really, in a nutshell.


    ( If you believe in all that sort of thing )
  8. Joined
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    27 Oct '13 18:38
    Originally posted by Pianoman1
    I can add a few more of the Old Testament God's faults:

    1) petty
    2) unjust
    3) vindictive
    4) bloodthirsty
    5) ethnic cleanser
    6) misogynistic
    7) homophobic
    8) racist
    9) infanticidal
    10) genocidal
    11) filicidal
    12) pestilential
    13) megalomaniacal
    14) sadomasochistic
    15) malevolent
    16) bully
    17) capricious

    Satan?

    Er...um....just give me a few seconds.....well....
    OK, but 1-4 are not illegal or crimes.

    5 is covered in genocidal.

    6, 7 and 8 are also not illegal or crimes. However, inciting hatred and/or discrimination on the basis of sex, sexual preference and race are so we can add those to the list.

    9 and 10 were already on my list.

    11 we can add.

    I'm not sure that 12 is a crime, though I think endangering life would cover anything else not covered in the list so far.

    13-17 are not illegal or crimes.

    So a few to add.
  9. Joined
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    27 Oct '13 18:41
    Originally posted by whodey
    Satan promoted:

    1. Genocide
    2. Infanticide
    3. Slavery
    4. Murder
    5. Torture.

    God forbid the Almighty brings judgment to end the party.
    Where does Satan promote these in the Bible? I remember God promoting all these, but not Satan.

    Scriptural references would be appreciated.
  10. Joined
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    27 Oct '13 18:45
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    Allegedly it is said that Satan called God a liar when God told man
    that he will die if he eats the fruit that was forbidden.

    Satan allegedly told man that he would not die but that mans eyes
    would be opened and he would have the knowledge that God did
    not want man to have.


    God's alleged counter argument was that man will not survive witho ...[text shortened]... .




    So that's it really, in a nutshell.


    ( If you believe in all that sort of thing )
    Calling someone a liar is not a crime. It may be slanderous.

    Is that the worse anyone can some up with against Satan?
  11. Joined
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    27 Oct '13 19:243 edits
    Originally posted by Rank outsider
    Where does Satan promote these in the Bible? I remember God promoting all these, but not Satan.

    Scriptural references would be appreciated.
    Have you ever read the Bible? Anytime God issued a judgment or had people killed, it was due to their wickedness. For example, the people destroyed during the flood were said to be desperately wicked and murderous. We are also given a glimpse into the state of affairs before Sodom was destroyed. The angels who visited the city were approached by the men in the city in order to gang rape them.

    Only God knows exactly how wicked these people were and the need to deal with them.

    None of us have any trouble seeing Nazi's hang for their atrosities. But if God forbid if he does it with his own hand.
  12. Joined
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    27 Oct '13 20:00
    Originally posted by whodey
    Have you ever read the Bible? Anytime God issued a judgment or had people killed, it was due to their wickedness. For example, the people destroyed during the flood were said to be desperately wicked and murderous. We are also given a glimpse into the state of affairs before Sodom was destroyed. The angels who visited the city were approached by the men i ...[text shortened]... ble seeing Nazi's hang for their atrosities. But if God forbid if he does it with his own hand.
    Can we stick to the point? You said Satan promoted various crimes. Can you support that contention from scripture or not?
  13. Dublin Ireland
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    27 Oct '13 20:01
    Originally posted by whodey
    Have you ever read the Bible? Anytime God issued a judgment or had people killed, it was due to their wickedness. For example, the people destroyed during the flood were said to be desperately wicked and murderous. We are also given a glimpse into the state of affairs before Sodom was destroyed. The angels who visited the city were approached by the men i ...[text shortened]... ble seeing Nazi's hang for their atrosities. But if God forbid if he does it with his own hand.
    God allegedly created these people. All people.
    Good people as well as evil people.

    What does this say about your God?

    The fact that he had to destroy that which he created in the first place?

    How could you claim that your God is all knowing and all powerful
    and infallible if he made the mistake of creating something he would have to destroy?
  14. SubscriberProper Knob
    Cornovii
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    27 Oct '13 20:031 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Have you ever read the Bible? Anytime God issued a judgment or had people killed, it was due to their wickedness. For example, the people destroyed during the flood were said to be desperately wicked and murderous. We are also given a glimpse into the state of affairs before Sodom was destroyed. The angels who visited the city were approached by the men i ...[text shortened]... ble seeing Nazi's hang for their atrosities. But if God forbid if he does it with his own hand.
    The 'people' destroyed during the flood was every human being on the planet, men women and children. Do you believe the children were 'wicked and murderous'?
  15. Joined
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    27 Oct '13 20:35
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    ( If you believe in all that sort of thing )
    Do you?
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