@fmf saidI believe God speaks to us all, He calls us, but we don't always answer. Jesus being the good Shepard, guides His sheep, they know His voice and another they will not follow, but those that don't belong to Him don't follow Him. The Truth sets us free, not thinking correctly about things, there we always fall short, walking out of our lives not knowing what is true or lie, good or bad, making it all up as we go, that is until the Truth comes to us, and calls us by name.
Some people might be like this, I suppose, even Christians. People are different; people make choices. We use our moral compasses to evaluate one another. That's life I suppose.
But for most people, I think, their moral compass keeps them in check and is an inner "voice" that they feel they must obey. That's how it works with me, and I am pretty sure that's how it works for y ...[text shortened]... th such a broad non-religiouscdefinition of "God" but it's an interesting idea and food for thought.
@kellyjay saidIf this is how you perceive your own personal moral compass, its source and its utility, then I understand. As for me, I don't go for how you couch it in a narrative about supernatural things. And your threats/warnings about me not seeing my compass in the same way as you see yours are, morally speaking, meaningless to me.
I believe God speaks to us all, He calls us, but we don't always answer. Jesus being the good Shepard, guides His sheep, they know His voice and another they will not follow, but those that don't belong to Him don't follow Him.
@kellyjay saidIf you would 'make it up as you go' and do bad things if it weren't for your theist beliefs and if it weren't for you telling yourself that your perspective is "the Truth", and capitalizing the word like that, then that's OK.
The Truth sets us free, not thinking correctly about things, there we always fall short, walking out of our lives not knowing what is true or lie, good or bad, making it all up as we go, that is until the Truth comes to us, and calls us by name.
The outcome [morally sound behaviour] is what's important; navigating one's way through the landscape of life, work, play, rasing a family etc. is what's important.
@fmf saidDo you think honesty is a morally important quality for someone to have?
If this is how you perceive your own personal moral compass, its source and its utility, then I understand. As for me, I don't go for how you couch it in a narrative about supernatural things. And your threats/warnings about me not seeing my compass in the same way as you see yours are, morally speaking, meaningless to me.
If so, when is it acceptable, in your view, to lie?
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@pb1022 saidThe brass tacks of morality are no harm, no deception, no coercion. Out in the field, it gets a bit more complicated of course [that's what moral compasses are for], but that's what it boils down to... that and a marinade of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
Do you think honesty is a morally important quality for someone to have?
@fmf saidSo you obviously would have to know that “someone” pretty well to know what would distress him or her.
Examples would be [1] to save your family from harm, and in certain situations [2] to spare someone distress.
And I wonder how much distress, in terms of intensity and duration, justifies lying in your view.
And what if the lie saves someone you know and like from distress but causes distress for someone you dislike - is lying justified then? (Assume equal levels of distress for each party.)
@pb1022 saidWhen we went to commemorate the 40th day since the death of my father-in-law a few weeks ago, I found that the family had not told his very old and very frail mother-in-law about his passing yet.
So you obviously would have to know that “someone” pretty well to know what would distress him or her.
That would, technically speaking, be a lie by omission, I think. If she were in a healthier condition, she'd have already been told. I was expected to play along... and, of course, I did.
@pb1022 saidI imagine you are perhaps grinding some sort of axe here and it's obscuring whatever genuine question may be hidden in your words, if there is one. Give me an example.
And I wonder how much distress, in terms of intensity and duration, justifies lying in your view.And what if the lie saves someone you know and like from distress but causes distress for someone you dislike - is lying justified then? (Assume equal levels of distress for each party.)
@fmf saidI think it’s a pretty straightforward question.
I imagine you are perhaps grinding some sort of axe here and it's obscuring whatever genuine question may be hidden in your words, if there is one. Give me an example.
If it makes you uncomfortable and you don’t want to answer it, I understand your position.
@fmf saidI don’t think that’s a lie.
When we went to commemorate the 40th day since the death of my father-in-law a few weeks ago, I found that the family had not told his very old and very frail mother-in-law about his passing yet.
That would, technically speaking, be a lie by omission, I think. If she were in a healthier condition, she'd have already been told. I was expected to play along... and, of course, I did.
For example, one dictionary definition of lie is “an untrue statement.” I don’t think not mentioning something is a lie.
And even an untrue statement (imo) is not a lie if the person making the untrue statement doesn’t realize it’s untrue and actually thinks it is true.