@fmf saidNo, If I were the measuring stick alone, whatever I say about my views, I would not have to explain to you, they are my views, and that is that. Because I have sources outside of myself, I cannot do that; I have to trust that source and measure what is good and evil by it, not me. As the example of throwing darts, I have a target I throw at it, and if I hit it, everyone knows; if I miss, everyone knows. If I have just me as the source anywhere, the darts lands are fine, I threw it there, and if I throw again and it lands someplace elsewhere, that is where I was throwing it. Everyone knows if I'm living up to love thy neighbor as myself if I'm constantly calling someone names, stealing from them, belittling them every chance I get if I go out of my way to attack them verbally. If I am my standard of right and wrong, I do what I want because I want to and who is anyone to tell me differently?
Your measuring device is you and you alone, KellyJay: it's your moral compass and your personal decision-making and responsibility-taking attendant thereto.
You have your unique "nature" and unique conscience, and then there is your unique "nature", your experiences, including your exposure to religion.
Your measuring device is your unique moral compass: and if the Bible has helped form it, good for you. I hope it helps live a morally sound life.
@kellyjay saidThe composition of my moral compass is drawn from outside sources too, things I have seen, heard, read [including the Bible], conversations I've had, people I've known, experiences I have had. Exactly the same goes for you. It's entirely subjective. And unique. For both of us. For each of us, alone.
You add I have an opinion too, which is true; mine is drawn from outside sources, yours to date is all within you, and you alone.
@kellyjay saidWe all draw on "outside-of-myself" sources. That's how moral compasses work.
No, If I were the measuring stick alone, whatever I say about my views, I would not have to explain to you, they are my views, and that is that. Because I have sources outside of myself, I cannot do that; I have to trust that source and measure what is good and evil by it, not me.
@kellyjay saidThe courts. Law enforcement. Your local government. Your neighbourhood. Your immediate neighbours. Your work colleagues. Your family. Your spouse. Your own moral compass processing all these influences and interactions.
Everyone knows if I'm living up to love thy neighbor as myself if I'm constantly calling someone names, stealing from them, belittling them every chance I get if I go out of my way to attack them verbally. If I am my standard of right and wrong, I do what I want because I want to and who is anyone to tell me differently?
@fmf saidYou cannot say we pick and choose what is right; it is an independent process for us alone if we are looking outside of ourselves to conform to something we believe is the true definition of truth and righteousness! If it is nothing but a buffet outside of us and we can choose chicken today fruit salad tomorrow, that is just as meaningless to the truth as not having something to look at. We are still the source of what is good and right. That is a contradiction, and if I'm choosing what is suitable for me alone, then it doesn't matter what I'm looking to for direction and purpose; I'm still the one deciding this is good that is bad the only thing that matters is what I think nothing more.
The composition of my moral compass is drawn from outside sources too, things I have seen, heard, read [including the Bible], conversations I've had, people I've known, experiences I have had. Exactly the same goes for you. It's entirely subjective. And unique. For both of us. For each of us, alone.
@kellyjay saidYour keen interest in the guidance that the Bible gives you is just one of many elements that form your moral compass. Yes, as you navigate your life using your moral compass it is an "independent process" for you alone and if you look to the Bible to give you a sense of what truth and righteousness are, that's fine. It's normal. It's how morality and being a free moral agent works.
You cannot say we pick and choose what is right; it is an independent process for us alone if we are looking outside of ourselves to conform to something we believe is the true definition of truth and righteousness!
@kellyjay saidIf your decision-making behaviour would be akin to "a buffet ... with ... chicken and ... fruit salad" etc. etc. without the Bible, and if your liking for the Bible is needed in order for your moral compass to function, then that's good. If it results in morally sound behaviour, I welcome it.
If it is nothing but a buffet outside of us and we can choose chicken today fruit salad tomorrow, that is just as meaningless to the truth as not having something to look at.
-Removed-Everything in it in context about the specific matters, yeah, so if you are going to look at any topic, you should look at all the verses about that topic, not just pick the one you like and discount all of the others that may present nuances that might not line up with your assessment of what is being said. Also, not everything said and done in the scriptures is all about what is good; many things show us evil too, so we have to look at what is said and why.
@fmf saidWhat do you use to figure out what is morally sound or not? You use that term more than once as if it is accepted verbiage that everyone agrees with because they all know and understand its meaning. That isn't the case it is no different than a politician talking about common-sense gun control; what is common sense to one is not to another, but everyone who hears it without thinking about it all walks away thinking they agree with the speaker because of how they, not the speaker is thinking when he says common-sense gun control.
If your decision-making behaviour would be akin to "a buffet ... with ... chicken and ... fruit salad" etc. etc. without the Bible, and if your liking for the Bible is needed in order for your moral compass to function, then that's good. If it results in morally sound behaviour, I welcome it.