07 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayWhat does all that have to do with people who lived BEFORE Jesus Christ came to the earth. The question was :
I have not said people without the Spirit of God were not able to do good works, just that
they were not able to please God. We are told by Jesus that only one is good and it isn't
us, you want to compare your efforts to God's? We receive the Holy Spirit, by asking God
not earning Him as if He were a paycheck for our human efforts, you cannot bribe, pay ...[text shortened]... our children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”
So is it your view that nobody was righteous, neither were they capable of doing good, neither was God with anyone, before Jesus Christ came and gave people His Spirit?
07 Jul 18
1 edit
Originally posted by @rajk999God gave His Spirit in the OT, but not like He does now.
What does all that have to do with people who lived BEFORE Jesus Christ came to the earth. The question was :
So is it your view that nobody was righteous, neither were they capable of doing good, neither was God with anyone, [b]before Jesus Christ came and gave people His Spirit?[/b]
They had temporary sacrifices in those days, because Jesus had not yet been given.
Also without faith it is impossible to please God, those in the OT had faith.
Originally posted by @sonshipBut this stuff is what lies at the dark heart of your torturer god ideology and robs you of a moral compass. People are right to confront you over it. divegeester is right to confront you over it. I have been confronted by dj2becker countless times about my ideology of morality ~ complete with his raping babies and raping babies for fun riffs ~ and I have addressed the way he uses the words "absolute" and "objective" to self-aggrandize his subjective opinions - and I have done so head on, over and over again.
Do you express a similar concern when Divegeester hounds some of us about burning flesh of those tortured alive under the sadistic observation of Jesus ?
Originally posted by @dj2beckerI never hound you and I don’t give a shlt what you believe. All I know is that you’re a bellend.
Says the guy who has been hounding me for believing in moral absolutes.
Originally posted by @sonshipLet’s just be very clear about something mister; I don’t hound anyone.
Do you express a similar concern when Divegeester hounds some of us about burning flesh of those tortured alive under the sadistic observation of Jesus ?
If you choose to engage in debate with me and then spend the entire time dodging and running away from the topic in hand then you are going to be challenged .
Furthermore, and let’s keep this front and centre, your version of the Christian god is worse than any despot, any terrorist, any gangster any rapist, any murderer...all put together since the dawn of time. And you are a supporter of this terrorist god.
Love me....or I’ll torture you for eternity.
07 Jul 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterIt is more like receive the gift of salvation or die in your sins. We cannot earn His grace
Let’s just be very clear about something mister; I don’t hound anyone.
If you choose to engage in debate with me and then spend the entire time dodging and running away from the topic in hand then you are going to be challenged .
Furthermore, and let’s keep this front and centre, your version of the Christian god is worse than any despot, any terror ...[text shortened]... And you are a supporter of this terrorist god.
Love me....or I’ll torture you for eternity.
it is either a free gift or we are doomed, due to our sins.
07 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayYou really need to stop telling yourself this and look at what it is you believe from the view of those who believe differently to you in order to get a different perspective.
It is more like receive the gift of salvation or die in your sins. We cannot earn His grace
it is either a free gift or we are doomed, due to our sins.
07 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayNo, it really isn’t more like that. This is the course of events, please correct me at any point a go wrong:
It is more like receive the gift of salvation or die in your sins.
God is sovereign and in universal control of his creation.
God creates the universe and earth and man and beasts.
God creates Satan and permits him access to mankind.
Satan corrupts mankind.
God (either now or previously) creates hell and decides to put everyone in thier who is not Christian.
Meanwhile God floods the earth killing everyone except 8. ( in a sort of prequel to the end times and judgment day)
However god loves the earth and it’s people and send his son to pay thier price, to die once and for all. (For everyone).
God asks everyone to believe some text gathered together over thousands of years, with no evidence whatsoever, that they must believe in Jesus or he will put them into hell.
God remains physically invisible for the next 2000 years, while billions of people die and go to hell to be burnt for eternity. Even though he is all powerful, sovereign and loves them so much.
Your version of God choose to do this.
Your go.
07 Jul 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterStop telling myself to believe the scriptures? Seriously, is this why you have to ask if it is
You really need to stop telling yourself this and look at what it is you believe from the view of those who believe differently to you in order to get a different perspective.
okay to not believe in parts of the Bible? You think you can earn God's favor, or like some
others here you are good enough, or you can work for grace, or God doesn't take sin as
seriously as the scriptures say.
The vast majority of people are going to lose out on God's grace, and you are picking
belly button hair trying to figure what you can reject from scripture and get away with.
What does it matter what any of us believe if what we bring to the table goes against a
part of scripture that is true, and shows a requirement of God that will condemn people
for the sins they have done in this life? If we neglect that great salvation, what will
become of us, if the righteous are just barely saved, what will become of the ungodly
and sinners?
ESV 1 Peter 4:18
And “If the righteous is scarcely saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”
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07 Jul 18
3 edits
Originally posted by @divegeester
God is sovereign and in universal control of his creation.
God creates the universe and earth and man and beasts.
God creates Satan and permits him access to mankind.
Stop right there.
"God creates Satan ?"
I don't understand it that way. I see that God created a very high being who had within himself the ability to CHOOSE another way from God's way and subsequently made himself into Satan.
Before I could go further in your summary, I would suggest the "God creates Satan" theory needs revisiting.
Originally posted by @sonshipAccording to your take on this story, "God" did not foresee that He was creating "Satan"?
Stop right there.
"God creates Satan ?"
I don't understand it that way. I see that God created a very high being who had within himself the ability to CHOOSE another way from God's way and subsequently made himself into Satan.
07 Jul 18
Originally posted by @divegeester*God is sovereign and in universal control of his creation.
No, it really isn’t more like that. This is the course of events, please correct me at any point a go wrong:
God is sovereign and in universal control of his creation.
God creates the universe and earth and man and beasts.
God creates Satan and permits him access to mankind.
Satan corrupts mankind.
God (either now or previously) creates hell and ...[text shortened]... powerful, sovereign and loves them so much.
Your version of God choose to do this.
Your go.
*God creates the universe and earth and man and beasts.
*God creates Satan and permits him access to mankind.
*Satan corrupts mankind.
Yes to all, Satan fell and took a part of heaven with him and corrupts mankind. So man
now cares more about the things of man other than the things of God.
*God (either now or previously) creates hell and decides to put everyone in thier who is not Christian.
God created hell for the devil and his angels, and when we joined him we became part
of that rebellion. Being a Christian is just a term to describe those that accepted God’s
grace, we are not set apart in any other fashion we are all just sinners saved by God’s grace.
*Meanwhile God floods the earth killing everyone except 8. ( in a sort of prequel to the end times and judgment day)
Yes, sin and evil are not going to be accepted. Unlike the devil and his angels there was
a way for us to recover from our part of the rebellion, it requires God to bare with His long
suffering the sins of man instead of just wiping man out completely. This was foretold the
moment God was speaking to man and the serpent, how man was going to crush his
head. It didn't have to go down that way, but God started giving man grace from that very
moment providing all man needed for life even if man were ungrateful, and didn't care
about God one way or another and broke all man's promises to God and hated both God
and man.
*However god loves the earth and it’s people and send his son to pay thier price, to die once and for all. (For everyone).
*God asks everyone to believe some text gathered together over thousands of years, with no evidence whatsoever, that they must believe in Jesus or he will put them into hell.
*God remains physically invisible for the next 2000 years, while billions of people die and go to hell to be burnt for eternity. Even though he is all powerful, sovereign and loves them so much.
*Your version of God choose to do this.
As I said, from the moment man sinned God was working towards redeeming mankind. It
just didn’t start a few thousand years later. No evidence, you have to just accept what is
written or not, if not than why accept even a small portion of this? The fact that the
history of Israel is recorded from Abraham on down to Jesus should give a clue. You
already said the flood was something you acknowledged, so you know how harsh God
feels about sin. The notion that God doesn’t love us just informs me you have no clue as
to God’s nature. The only reason we can even suffer through this sinful world is due to
the grace and long suffering of God, if He didn’t we would have been cast away as soon
as sin entered into us. The devil and his angels didn’t get the option, they didn’t have the
Word of God made flesh become one of them so He could receive the punishment of
God for their sins as we have had occur for us. You smear God name and character
suggesting He doesn’t love us.
07 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayI don’t see you refuting anything in my post specifically...or am I mission something?
*God is sovereign and in universal control of his creation.
*God creates the universe and earth and man and beasts.
*God creates Satan and permits him access to mankind.
*Satan corrupts mankind.
Yes to all, Satan fell and took a part of heaven with him and corrupts mankind. So man
now cares more about the things of man other than the things of God. ...[text shortened]... ns as we have had occur for us. You smear God name and character
suggesting He doesn’t love us.