Originally posted by @kellyjayThis is all you’ve got for the billions of non-Christians down the millennia who are now (according to you, sonship and most of the other American Christians in here)... in hell being tortured for eternity?
No evidence, you have to just accept what is written or no...
07 Jul 18
Originally posted by @divegeester"You really need to stop telling yourself this and look at what it is you believe from the view of those who believe differently to you in order to get a different perspective."
No, that’s not what I said at all is it. Now you are just being dishonest.
Are you going to address my other post?
This is what you said, and how is that not suggesting I don't go to the source and accept
what is written? You telling me I need to grasp a different perspective like those that
believe differently than I do, conform, be a part of the group, have my ears tickled
maybe? Hear just those things that are sweet to hear, that smooth my life, and make me
feel good about myself just as I am. You are one being dishonest here, if the Word of
God is the truth and your undercutting it, that is on you.
07 Jul 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterNot American Christians! Believe me many of them have boiled down the gospel so that it
This is all you’ve got for the billions of non-Christians down the millennia who are now (according to you, sonship and most of the other American Christians in here)... in hell being tortured for eternity?
is just say a few words and pow, Jesus comes into your life your saved. You don't get that
other places in the world where accepting Jesus Christ means you can now be killed by
those that hate them. Its either true, or not, pick wisely what parts of the Word of God you
want to judge not worthy of your faith.
07 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayGod is pleased with all righteousness and good works.
God gave His Spirit in the OT, but not like He does now.
They had temporary sacrifices in those days, because Jesus had not yet been given.
Also without faith it is impossible to please God, those in the OT had faith.
God is not pleased with all faith.
Many people professed faith but it was worthless.
Many who professed no faith but did righteousness were pleasing to God.
King Cyrus knew no God but did the right thing and God used him as ain instrument for good. Rahab was saved because of what she did, and not because of what she beleived :
And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent. (Joshua 6:17 KJV)
God saved her and she was counted as part of the worthy BECAUSE of her ACTIONS.
You promote a God that likes mouthworship and this is contrary to the Bible.
God likes righteousness and good works.
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07 Jul 18
2 edits
Originally posted by @fmfAccording to your take on my post -
According to your take on this story, "God" did not foresee that He was creating "Satan"?
What God foresaw is what God created.
That is not representative of what I wrote or believe.
Your question was crafted with a twist.
Of course there are some who have probably argued that if there is God's foreknowledge of a thing then there is no freedom of choice in that thing.
That argument has not yet convinced me of being valid after many years. I don't believe at this point that what an eternal transcendent God foreknew is what God perfectly willed.
God creates Satan is still problematic to me in Dive's summary. That God permitted in His sovereignty for Lucifer to develop himself into Satan is more how I see it.
I may go as far to say that WITHOUT God's allowance it could never have happened.
07 Jul 18
Originally posted by @rajk999You use mouth worship all the time, but when you refuse to accept God into your life that
God is pleased with all righteousness and good works.
God is not pleased with all faith.
Many people professed faith but it was worthless.
Many who professed no faith but did righteousness were pleasing to God.
King Cyrus knew no God but did the right thing and God used him as ain instrument for good. Rahab was saved because of what she did, and not ...[text shortened]... t likes mouthworship and this is contrary to the Bible.
God likes righteousness and good works.
is all you got. You worship Him with your mouth, but your heart is far from Him.
I don't disagree with a lot of what you say here.
07 Jul 18
Originally posted by @sonshipI am asking about foresight, foreseeing, to foresee. So, I'll try again. According to your take on this story, did "God" did not foresee that He was creating "Satan"?
According to your take on my post -
What God [b]foresaw is what God created.
That is not representative of what I wrote or believe.
Your question was crafted with a twist.
Of course there are some who have probably argued that if there is God's foreknowledge of a thing then there is no freedom of choice in that thing.
That argumen ...[text shortened]... is more how I see it.
I may go as far to say WITHOUT God's allowance it could never happen.[/b]
07 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayWhat ? Whats this about?
You use mouth worship all the time, but when you refuse to accept God into your life that
is all you got. You worship Him with your mouth, but your heart is far from Him.
I don't disagree with a lot of what you say here.
I refuse to accept God into my life?
I worship God with my mouth but my heart is far from Him?
I thought this was a general discussion about doctrine.
Where did the personal comments about what I do or do not do come from?
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07 Jul 18
3 edits
Originally posted by @fmfAccording to the whole tenor of the Bible, I am led to believe that God foresaw that the Anointed Cherub, the Daystar - Lucifer, would become Satan.
I am asking about foresight, foreseeing, to foresee. So, I'll try again. According to your take on this story, did "God" did [b]not foresee that He was creating "Satan"?[/b]
The accounts of Satan's origins do not state this to me. But in the whole tenor of Scripture I assume that it must be so. God foresaw what would happen if he created such a being with such closeness to God and delegated authority.
I have written before on two or three occasions that God created a being who acted as a grand reservoir like place into which He could collect ALL created beings who don't want anything to do with their Creator.
At this present time I believe that under God's sovereignty He is collected into one place (one leader) all those whom He created who have as their will not to belong to God or be reconciled to God.
It appears to me that God only needs to do this ONCE for all eternity. God in His wisdom allowed a very high being to have his will to be LIKE God. And as a reservoir God lets all others like him to go off and follow this leader.
Perhaps, unlike Kelly, I believe that God gave him untold eons to do his thing to try to usurp the true God even before man was created, to let all of his schemes fail for all the other creatures to see.
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Originally posted by @fmfFor a brief moment you seemed to be sincere not to misrepresent what I wrote.
So, divegeester was right when he said God created Satan and permitted him access to mankind, right?
A brief moment latter I see you dig in your heels and try your best to put Dive's words into my mouth.
So then, you dig in your heels and say - "Sonship you are then saying the same as Divegeester that God created Satan ... etc"
I think honesty would uncouple to two concepts.
1.) How was Satan created.
2.) How did Satan have access to corrupt man.
You may want to slip both concepts through into my mouth coupled together. Maybe I or someone else will not notice?
I said I don't see that God CREATED Satan because God foreknew what would happen.
That deals with the first point. In your second point, I believe God permitted man of HIS choice to fall under Satan's authority.
The rest of the Bible after Genesis 3 is concerned with God's plan of redemption to man.
I think Satan, under God's providence and foreknowledge, served as a kind of catalyst for God to fulfill His eternal purpose to build New Jerusalem in the new heaven and new earth.
Satan and all those following his philosophy (for lack of a better word) if not reconciled to God, will go to be together in a place of everlasting punishment. Probably everlasting rebellion will call for everlasting punishment and everlasting defeat.
07 Jul 18
Originally posted by @sonshipWas divegeester right when he said 'God created Satan and permitted him access to mankind', or was divegeester wrong when he said 'God created Satan and permitted him access to mankind'?
For a brief moment you seemed to be sincere not to misrepresent what I wrote.
A brief moment latter I see you dig in your heels and try your best to put Dive's words into my mouth.
So then, you dig in your heels and say - "Sonship you are then saying the same as Divegeester that God created Satan ... etc"
I think honesty would uncouple to two con ...[text shortened]... ent. Probably everlasting rebellion will call for everlasting punishment and everlasting defeat.
07 Jul 18
Originally posted by @fmfThe bible is clear about that
Was divegeester right when he said 'God created Satan and permitted him access to mankind', or was divegeester wrong when he said 'God created Satan and permitted him access to mankind'?
- God created Satan
- Satan was allowed access to mankind.
Its a simple matter and why do Christians fight against it, I cannot understand.
Certainly Satan will have his punishment.
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07 Jul 18
1 edit
Originally posted by @fmfGoing around in circles will prove what now ?
Was divegeester right when he said 'God created Satan and permitted him access to mankind', or was divegeester wrong when he said 'God created Satan and permitted him access to mankind'?
If you want to understand me, you can re-read my carefully written comments.
Re-asking will demonstrate exactly WHAT ? Is this suppose to prove you REALLY want to understand something ?
I said I don't see that God CREATED Satan because God foreknew what would happen.
That deals with the first point. In your second point, I believe God permitted man of HIS choice to fall under Satan's authority.