Originally posted by @dj2beckerYet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[e]
Paul doesn't say that God hates people before they have a chance of doing something, your demented theology does.
Tell me, is it just a coincidence that the prophecy that the older will serve the younger coincides with God loving the younger and hating the older?
One other question, do you believe that the elect exist?
Originally posted by @eladarNo, I'm again not judging God. I believe God to be just and fair.
Would you be judgung God if what Paul says is true? Would God be evil if he hated people before they even have a chance of doing something?
If you wish to go on believing God hates most people you do that, that is you, not God.
With respect to scripture I suggest you read more than one or two verses if looked at
alone prove your point, instead look at the whole of scripture and look at each verse
in light of all the other text. They do not disagree with each other, and if you think that
if they do, odds it is your understanding not the scripture that is in conflict.
Jesus came to save us, He became sin for us, He is not willing that any perish, that does
not mean some will not perish, but it isn't going to be because God didn't want them
saved. Look at what Jesus said about Jerusalem, it wasn't that Jesus didn't want to save
them, they didn't want saved. Some love their sin, some love to hate, some love to tell
everyone how good they are and how bad others are, some love to find fault, some blame
people, some blame God, but bottom line we are all sinners before the most Holy God.
He sent His Son to save us, Jesus became sin to pay for our sins, and it is whoever is
willing to make Jesus Lord and Savior will be saved as they go to the Lord. He is the
author and finisher of our faith, it rests on the work of Jesus Christ. We enter into His rest
and do the works He has for us, in His Spirit, where no one can pluck us out of His hands.
Your doctrine if filled with hate and confusion, you have no idea who is or why they are
saved, and there is no promise you can point to from God that can remove your doubt,
because you do not have sure foundation to trust with. What you do is condemn others
especially anyone who believes they have received God's grace, because if that is a real
it is a threat to your insecurities, if others can be at rest in God, than what is wrong with
you? Do not reject God, seek Him, there is a rest in Christ, put your burdens down and
cast them upon Jesus who cares for you.
Matthew 23:37
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!
Luke 19:10
For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
Hebrews 3:10-12English Standard Version (ESV)
10 Therefore I was provoked with that generation,
and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart;
they have not known my ways.’
11 As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest.’”
12 Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.
Originally posted by @kellyjayLet me adjust how I state my question so that you can actually answer the question I am asking, if you are honest enough to do so.
No, I'm again not judging God. I believe God to be just and fair.
If you wish to go on believing God hates most people you do that, that is you, not God.
With respect to scripture I suggest you read more than one or two verses if looked at
alone prove your point, instead look at the whole of scripture and look at each verse
in light of all the other ...[text shortened]... there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.
My question is that if the God I am describing is the true God, would you be judge this God as being evil or unjust?
Originally posted by @kellyjayNobody answered my question, what does 'hardening of the heart' mean? I would think a god would want to soften someones heart to get him to do what god wants.
No, I'm again not judging God. I believe God to be just and fair.
If you wish to go on believing God hates most people you do that, that is you, not God.
With respect to scripture I suggest you read more than one or two verses if looked at
alone prove your point, instead look at the whole of scripture and look at each verse
in light of all the other ...[text shortened]... there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.
Hardening of the heart sounds to me like causing someone to have less empathy, not a good thing I would think.
26 Aug 17
Originally posted by @sonhouseI wonder how empathy will be helping those who do not have eternal life.
Nobody answered my question, what does 'hardening of the heart' mean? I would think a god would want to soften someones heart to get him to do what god wants.
Hardening of the heart sounds to me like causing someone to have less empathy, not a good thing I would think.
Jesus didn't sound very empathetic when he said let the dead bury the dead.
Originally posted by @sonhouseHardening is becoming more opposed to something, example being the more he talked about me buying a new car the less I wanted to. Being opposed to God or His will would mean we are digging in to oppose. The more God could show you the more you would have to harden your heart to reject it.
Nobody answered my question, what does 'hardening of the heart' mean? I would think a god would want to soften someones heart to get him to do what god wants.
Hardening of the heart sounds to me like causing someone to have less empathy, not a good thing I would think.
Think about Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead, if there was ever something God alone could do it was that. Instead of accepting Jesus they plotted to kill Him and Lazarus. They without a doubt had hard hearts.
26 Aug 17
Originally posted by @eladarI think you don't know what you are talking about, so your description doesn't mean much.
Let me adjust how I state my question so that you can actually answer the question I am asking, if you are honest enough to do so.
My question is that if the God I am describing is the true God, would you be judge this God as being evil or unjust?
Originally posted by @kellyjayI didn't ask for your opinion of what I described. I asked if you would judge such a God.
I think you don't know what you are talking about, so your description doesn't mean much.
I figured you'd be unable to give an honest answer. It fits your belief system and shows Suzi is your sister.
You are duped into a false belief system and are unable to admit the contradiction your belief system creates.
26 Aug 17
Originally posted by @eladarI told you I don't judge God, that was an honest answer.
I didn't ask for your opinion of what I described. I asked if you would judge such a God.
I figured you'd be unable to give an honest answer. It fits your belief system and shows Suzi is your sister.
You are duped into a false belief system and are unable to admit the contradiction your belief system creates.
You spend way to much time looking for ways to condemn God and man.
I will only say with what judgment you use it will be used on you, so if you have any
friends that have sin in their lives and you are spending your time here condemning me
for that, you have some dark times coming.
26 Aug 17
Originally posted by @kellyjaySo if God is accurately described by what I claim, you still call that God good?
I told you I don't judge God, that was an honest answer.
You spend way to much time looking for ways to condemn God and man.
I will only say with what judgment you use it will be used on you, so if you have any
friends that have sin in their lives and you are spending your time here condemning me
for that, you have some dark times coming.
26 Aug 17
Originally posted by @eladarI believe we are all sinners, that means me, you, and Suzi. We all need Jesus' love and
I didn't ask for your opinion of what I described. I asked if you would judge such a God.
I figured you'd be unable to give an honest answer. It fits your belief system and shows Suzi is your sister.
You are duped into a false belief system and are unable to admit the contradiction your belief system creates.
grace, that means me, you, and Suzi. If we come to God through Jesus Christ He starts
a work in us to sanctify us, becoming more like Him, it is a place of right standing where
that is done, washed in Jesus' blood, and as we become more like Him we will turn away
from all of our selfish desires, all of our hate, all of our condemnations of others, and will
start living our lives out with the foundation of our hearts being God's grace and mercy
which at NO TIME IN OUR SORRY LIVES will we ever be good enough to earn by our
own efforts. It is God's grace through Jesus Christ that saves us, we saved by grace
through faith a gift of God. So if you want to condemn someone, take it up with their Lord
who they answer too, not me, I'm not their Lord, nor do I want to be.
26 Aug 17
Originally posted by @eladarI call you a pi$$ poor example of someone who talks about Jesus Christ, have you ever
So if God is accurately described by what I claim, you still call that God good?
bothered to look at all the ugly things you have said about Him? Don't come to me with that
crap, from you I don't want to hear it, you need to pull your mind out of the gutter and get
some grace before its to late for you.
26 Aug 17
Originally posted by @kellyjayEverything about Jesus that I have stated is absolutely true and is only ugly in the eyes of natural man.
I call you a pi$$ poor example of someone who talks about Jesus Christ, have you ever
bothered to look at all the ugly things you have said about Him? Don't come to me with that
crap, from you I don't want to hear it, you need to pull your mind out of the gutter and get
some grace before its to late for you.