@Indonesia-Phil saidIn this life you have the opportunity to go to God for His salvation, Jesus won that right for you, and your sins will be pain for in full by Jesus Christ and applied to you, or you will pay face wrath of God on your own because you neglected this great salvation.
So we're judged after we're condemned. You really should work on your terminology.
@KellyJay saidYou are confusing the terms.
Everyone has the right to be saved, not because of themselves, but Jesus Christ. Not everyone will be, and only those in Christ are. If you do not believe you are condemned already, why? What is the state of those who do not know the Lord, Jesus was quite clear, depart from me I never knew you.
From John 3
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not ...[text shortened]... cowardly, faithless, detestable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars?
Everyone is saved from the condemnation of Adams sin. It means the curse of Adam's sin is cancelled.
Nobody is condemned already because of the sacrifice of Christ.
Those who keep the commandments are known to God and Jesus.
That is all the matters. It is who God knows, not who claims to know God.
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. (Joh 14:21 KJV)
@Rajk999 saidWe are saved by faith through grace and only by God can we do the works of God without Him we are still in our flesh and no one can please God walking in the flesh. You have the world unrepentant and being saved from wrath to come. Having God manifest Himself to us is the point! God will not make His home in an unrepentant sinner who rejects, ignores, or thinks the sacrifice of Christ unworthy of making Him Lord and Savior.
You are confusing the terms.
Everyone is saved from the condemnation of Adams sin. It means the curse of Adam's sin is cancelled.
Nobody is condemned already because of the sacrifice of Christ.
Those who keep the commandments are known to God and Jesus.
That is all the matters. It is who God knows, not who claims to know God.
He that hath my commandments, ...[text shortened]... be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. (Joh 14:21 KJV)
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
@KellyJay saidLet Christ decide.
We are saved by faith through grace and only by God can we do the works of God without Him we are still in our flesh and no one can please God walking in the flesh. You have the world unrepentant and being saved from wrath to come. Having God manifest Himself to us is the point! God will not make His home in an unrepentant sinner who rejects, ignores, or thinks the sacrif ...[text shortened]... will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
@Rajk999 saidLike anyone could take that away from Him, He is just and the justifier of us, unrepentant sinners. You will have to show how they can remain unrepentant and receive the grace of God, and how they can be saved from their sins.
Let Christ decide.
@Rajk999 saidDo you think unrepentant sinners are keeping God's commandments?
You are confusing the terms.
Everyone is saved from the condemnation of Adams sin. It means the curse of Adam's sin is cancelled.
Nobody is condemned already because of the sacrifice of Christ.
Those who keep the commandments are known to God and Jesus.
That is all the matters. It is who God knows, not who claims to know God.
He that hath my commandments, ...[text shortened]... be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. (Joh 14:21 KJV)
You are at odds with what the scriptures say, proclaiming those who have not believed in Jesus Christ are not condemned already.
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@KellyJay saidHow about if you let God decide who the sinners are, and who has repented and who has not?
Do you think unrepentant sinners are keeping God's commandments?
You are at odds with what the scriptures say, proclaiming those who have not believed in Jesus Christ are not condemned already.
@Rajk999 saidWe are all sinners, and those that repent and go to the Lord are saved, those that don't are not. I don't have to know specifically, but unless you can show Jesus or anyone saying you can stay in sin without repentance you are making it up and putting people in danger thinking they are good enough if they believe so, it requires Jesus Christ.
How about if you let God decide who the sinners are, and who has repented and who has not?
Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”
Do you actually take Jesus at His words, all of them?
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@KellyJay saidAgain, Jesus decides who is repentant and who is keeping the commandments.
We are all sinners, and those that repent and go to the Lord are saved, those that don't are not. I don't have to know specifically, but unless you can show Jesus or anyone saying you can stay in sin without repentance you are making it up and putting people in danger thinking they are good enough if they believe so, it requires Jesus Christ.
Now after John was arrested, ...[text shortened]... hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”
Do you actually take Jesus at His words, all of them?
It has nothing to do with the church teaching or the bible.
There was no new testament bible in the time of Christ and the Apostles.
You are practicing bible-worship.
@Rajk999 saidNothing to do with the Bible, who do you think revealed His truth in Biblical scripture? If you ignore that written word for your imagination, it becomes clear where you go for truth, not the WORD, but yourself.
Again, Jesus decides who is repentant and who is keeping the commandments.
It has nothing to do with the church teaching or the bible.
There was no new testament bible in the time of Christ and the Apostles.
You are practicing bible-worship.
@KellyJay saidGod has written his laws into the heart of man.
Nothing to do with the Bible, who do you think revealed His truth in Biblical scripture? If you ignore that written word for your imagination, it becomes clear where you go for truth, not the WORD, but yourself.
Some men ignore this, and instead listen to their church
@Rajk999 saidThe human heart can deceive you, while the written Word will not change because you like this and don't like that. Jesus acknowledged the necessity of studying the Word because they speak about Him, but you say ignore that. You say, your heart is more important than the written Word, and those walking in the flesh cannot please God doesn't that concern you?
God has written his laws into the heart of man.
Some men ignore this, and instead listen to their church
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@Indonesia-Phil saidThe species as a whole isn't a priority in the believer's life. An individual soul comes first. One might as well have cautious optimism a live deity is raring for and has collected on the docket.
And by the way, you are holding us back as a species.
In the big business world, there are vampires who do the sucking out of advancement. They're not just the arrogant ones who stay aloft in the management service.
@Of-Ants-and-Imps saidWell, I don't quite understand what you're getting at in most of your post, but taking your first two sentences, I think this 'I'm all right Jack' attitude which prevails amongst Christians on these forums is what strikes one. If you happen to have lived before Christ (is said to have) turned up, or believe in a different prophet, or god, or are born with the wrong genetic makeup, then bad luck, you're going to burn in hell for eternity, but not me, buster, I'm sorted.
The species as a whole isn't a priority in the believer's life. An individual soul comes first. One might as well have cautious optimism a live deity is raring for and has collected on the docket.
In the big business world, there are vampires who do the sucking out of advancement. They're not just the arrogant ones who stay aloft in the management service.
To be a Christian (or to be of any other faith) these days is to deny all of the scientific and cultural progress which has been made over the last few thousand years, as is amply demonstrated by the lack of any coherent answer to any of the glaring contradictions and inconsistencies which Christians nowadays have to ignore, in order to 'keep the faith.' I and others have posed so many questions to Christians here, and all that we receive in return is a deafening silence, or a convenient change of subject.