4 edits
@FMF
I expounded a little verse 24, 25, 26.
And I supplied Mark 10:27 for some further insight.
I could go on to the example of Jesus hanging nailed to the cross under torture from men and judgement from God. And part of His final intructions to the disciple John looking on was to be sure to take care of His mother.
I have to take it all in FMF.
To get hung up on one passage is not genuine to me.
This would be like sitting down to turkey dinner and hunting for a bone to choke
on. To me it is not genuine inquiry to not consider the wider scope of what is being taught there - AND the examples being shown.
1 edit
@fmf saidThe Commandments give us laws that are a proper way to live with each other; having one crime in another area of life doesn't void all others; it simply means that when we do wrong, it is all wrong. The law is for those that do wrong, highlighting what is right, honoring our parents is the right thing to do, the fact that other crimes make that something less than because some parents are sinners in the most disgusting terms doesn't change what is right or wrong. You want to throw out what is good because others are evil; we see evil because of the good; if there were nothing that sets one apart from the other, even that which find we repulsive would be as acceptable as that which we accept.
It's not about there being a "loophole". It's about whether its actually a legitimate "commandment" - supposedly divine - or just a reflection of a culture in a particular time. There's a reason why there's a "commandment" about "false Gods" but not one forbidding violence against women and children or one forbidding the ownership of human beings. It's not about "loopholes" its about seeing "commandments" like the ones that are revered for what they are.
James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.
@kellyjay saidWhen [what year or decade, approximately] did it become evil to execute people for contravening this commandment?
You want to throw out what is good because others are evil; we see evil because of the good; if there were nothing that sets one apart from the other, even that which find we repulsive would be as acceptable as that which we accept.
James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.
4 edits
@FMF
You say I sidetepped the question. Quite specifically then -
‘Honour your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ Matthew 15:4
[1] This surely doesn't apply in all cases, right?
What is the "this" you are referring to?
Jesus was discussing Exodus 20:12 or Deut. 5:16.
Are you asking if the commandment of these passages was for all cases
conceivable anywhere, anytime, everytime, through all time up to right now?
Ie. "There should have been absolutely no instance in human history since this commandments was given right up to this present moment in time when a disrespecting child was not immediately put to death for speaking evilly of his father or mother? "
I think there would be no one left alive except for orphans.
So I don't think there was not a single instance in human history since the utterance of that command by God at Mt. Sinai up to the present moment when a child speaking disrespectfully of its parents should not have been executed to death.
Does that answer your question?
What about dysfunctional parents and families?
I saw no qualifier on the kind of parents.
To speak a truthful statement about some dysfunctional parent may not be speaking disrepectfully. It could be speaking the tuth in love respectfully.
[2] When [what year or decade, approximately] did it become evil to execute people for contravening this commandment?
I don't know. Probably, it could be abused sneakily and evilly by someone the very same year they first heard the commandment.
Ie. Some evilly reasoning parent could utilize the commandments as an excuse to murder a child for the slightest infraction. Abuse of one of the commandments could occur soon after receiving it at Mt. Sinai.
Ultra "tolerance" of obsessive permisivism could also abuse go to the extreme not to discipline ANY expression of disrepect whatsoever. Don't you think extremes on either side were capable of being abused? I do.
The questions asked seems to suggest nothing else is commanded in the whole
Bible except to execute disrespectulfly speaking children.
To act as if nothing else is God's desire but the execution of a disrespectfully
speaking child of its parents is a caricature of the Bible.
[3] What about this? "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26
That is ANOTHER question. And I think I answer it reasonably directly.
I spoke of how I would consider the teaching about having no idols being more important that God (Jesus us God become a man).
I spoke of personal experience how my love for family was enhance by following Jesus. I spoke of additional important information. I spoke of the example of Jesus Himself making living arrangements for His mother as a last act of familial responsbility even in His final moments before dying.
1 edit
@sonship saidDo think it would be evil, nowadays, to execute someone for speaking disrespectfully of their father or mother?[2] When [what year or decade, approximately] did it become evil to execute people for contravening this commandment?
I don't know. Probably, it could be abused sneakily and evilly by someone the very same year they first heard the commandment.
If the answer is "No", then when did it switch from being "good" to "evil" for the death penalty to be applied for this?
@sonship saidWhy do Christians have to hate their own parents and siblings?[3] What about this? "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26
That is ANOTHER question. And I think I answer it reasonably directly.