How to forgive?

Originally posted by @rajk999
It makes no difference whether Old or New Covenant. There is one simple undeniable fact.:
[b] Only the righteous will enter the Kingdom of God Regardless of where a person was, or where he lived, or what time he lived in, this rule made by God & Jesus and repeated all over the Bible is unchangeable.

God HATES SINNERS / God LOVES THE RIGHTEO ...[text shortened]... their eternal life
- boasting that not even God can revoke this eternal life.

Disgraceful ![/b]

No Christian brags of being a sinner. We acknowledge it and are honest about it. We don’t falsely claim to be living a sin-free life while we’re bearing false witness against people and condemning them every 10 minutes.

Read the parable of the Pharisee and tax collector. Better yet, bookmark it and commit it to memory.

Originally posted by @romans1009
No Christian brags of being a sinner. We acknowledge it and are honest about it. We don’t falsely claim to be living a sin-free life while we’re bearing false witness against people and condemning them every 10 minutes.

Read the parable of the Pharisee and tax collector. Better yet, bookmark it and commit it to memory.

Several lies in this post:
1. You Whodey and several others boast that you are sinners.
2. You constantly claim that all people are filthy sinners.
3. I have never read anyone here saying that they are living a sin free life.

My disagreement with your dioctrine does not constitute trolling neither is it hate or false witness.

You constantly fail to understand the Bible. The Pharisees thought they were righteous. Nothing I have said can possibly be misconstrued to mean that I think Im righteous.
I do not discuss my personal life. I discuss doctrine.
The tax collector was humble and he asked God to forgive his sins.
If you twist that to mean that the tax collector can continue with this live of sin and asking for forgiveness then you have failed to understand the teachings of Christ.

Your problem seems to be that you are not familiar with someone who can discuss the doctrine of Christ without examining everyone's personal life. Your personal life, my personal life has no relevance to what Jesus preached.

Finally you do not understand what the New Covenant is, because you have the following misconceptions about it
- that you just profess your faith, read your bible, pray and you have eternal life
- it is a licence to live in sin and still get into the Kingdom of God.
- that you have the Spirit of Christ and therefore your sins are always forgiven
- that you will always do good works.
- that you can ignore the commandments of Christ.

Your mistakes are fatal.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Several lies in this post:
1. You Whodey and several others boast that you are sinners.
2. You constantly claim that all people are filthy sinners.
3. I have never read anyone here saying that they are living a sin free life.

My disagreement with your dioctrine does not constitute trolling neither is it hate or false witness.

You constantly fail t ...[text shortened]... ys do good works.
- that you can ignore the commandments of Christ.

Your mistakes are fatal.

I don’t “boast” that I’m a sinner; I acknowledge it. And the Bible says we are all sinners. If you read it (or read it more often,) instead of mocking people who do, you would know that.

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”

(Romans 3:23)


“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

(1 John 1:8-10)

Both you and ToO have said someone cannot commit a single sin and obtain salvation. You and ToO have identified yourselves as “Christ followers” and you have claimed you’re a sheep in the Parable of the Sheep and Goats, meaning you think you have obtained salvation and are heaven bound. Ergo, you claim by inference to be living a sin-free life.

Your constant misrepresentations of what I have said and what I believe does indeed constitute trolling. Why don’t you stick to stating your beliefs and positions and stop trying to state mine?

You are constantly condemning other people on here while claiming you’re a sheep.

I have no problem with your not discussing your personal life. But you have yet to give an example of what you consider to be good works or how many good works one must do. For someone who believes in salvation by works, that’s a glaring weakness in your doctrine. You don’t know what constitutes good works, you don’t know how many God wants one to do, you don’t know if bad works cancel out good works, you think atheists will go to heaven based on good works, which is clearly not Biblical, and you can’t say how short one can fall in following Christ and still be a “sheep.” But all of that is not surprising because salvation by works is a false doctrine.

I did not twist the Parable of the Pharisee and Tax Collector. That is you, again, bearing false witness against me by making false statements about what I have said and believe.

How is your repeated bearing of false witness against me and others and your constant condemnation of others following Christ? Is that what Christ did? Is that what Christ taught His followers to do?

You still don’t get, no matter how many times I say it, that sincere and genuine acceptance of Christ leads to the indwelling of God’s Holy Spirit in a new believer and God’s Holy Spirit changes the new believer’s heart, and, consequently, his or her behavior. Salvation by faith alone is not a license to continue sinning. In fact, if an aversion to sin does not develop, that is evidence that the acceptance of Christ was not sincere because God’s Holy Spirit did not indwell the person in question.

John the Apostle, who knew Jesus Christ far better than you, said Jesus forgives us when we repent of our sins with a sincere heart. The Lord looks on the heart because it is from the heart that behavior comes.

I never said I will “always do good works,” but doing good works is a natural consequence of sincerely accepting Christ and receiving God’s Holy Spirit.

Never said I could or do ignore God’s commands. I try to live up to them but realize I fall short - as everyone falls short.

My mistakes are fatal? There you go again, judgmentally condemning someone. What a surprise.

Originally posted by @divegeester
Are you saying that it is only possibly to forgive a person if they repent of whatever harm they have don’t you?

That it doesn't make sense to forgive without repentance. That God and Jesus have it right.

It is best for both the wrongdoer and the wronged party.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I have noticed, with Christians, that they tend to fall in to two camps on this issue:

1. Forgiveness is the Christian thing to do. No caveats. (in line with 'For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.' )

2. They link forgiveness with vengeance/divine punishment. - This way they can f ...[text shortened]... re not demonstrating the forgiveness asked of them by Christ. It is a defamation of his message.

That's entirely correct.

You need to forgive and hope for the other person only the good things.

Every once in a while you get some thought in your head like "These people will pay for what they did," e.g., go to hell, and the second you think that you have committed a sin.

I have had that thought a few times in the last couple of years and every time I feel like I just totally hit the reset button on my spiritual progress.

To hope another suffers is wrong.

I can see how there is an argument that suffering justly, and learning from it, is very desirable, and we should even hope to see justice be done in some kind of way like that... But suggesting someone gets eternal torment and never reaches salvation is just this thing that "oh yeah, he's gonna get that,GOOD," is a wrong, wrong sentiment and fully affirms the idea that you are a viable candidate for it.

Originally posted by @romans1009
I don’t “boast” that I’m a sinner; I acknowledge it. And the Bible says we are all sinners. If you read it (or read it more often,) instead of mocking people who do, you would know that.

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”

(Romans 3:23)


“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

...[text shortened]...

My mistakes are fatal? There you go again, judgmentally condemning someone. What a surprise.

Let me simplify this. There is no such thing as
salvation by faith
salvation by works

Those are your classifications and they mean nothing to Christ.
I have never used those expressions. They are nonsense.

Salvation or eternal life is through Jesus Christ.
This means that it is Jesus Christ who decides who gets eternal life.

I await the judgement of Christ
You apparently already have it.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Let me simplify this. There is no such thing as
salvation by faith
salvation by works

Those are your classifications and they mean nothing to Christ.
I have never used those expressions. They are nonsense.

Salvation or eternal life is through Jesus Christ.
This means that it is Jesus Christ who decides who gets eternal life.

I await the judgement of Christ
You apparently already have it.

Salvation by faith is Biblical.

Paul, who was handpicked by Jesus to deliver His Gospel to the Gentiles, said it:

“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

(Romans 10:9)

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

(Ephesians 2:8-9)

John the Apostle, who was described as the disciple whom Jesus loved, said it:

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

(John 3:16)

Jesus Christ said it in numerous places:

“Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.

And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”

(John 8:21-24)

“For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

(John 6:38-40)

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

(John 14:6)

God set the criteria for who receives eternal life in His New Covenant with man. But it’s up to each individual to decide if he or she believes in and accepts Jesus Christ. No one can do it for them.

For some people, the decision is easy. But I didn’t make my decision until after I had read the Bible, conducted independent research on whether the Resurrection of Jesus Christ was true, and attended church and a Bible study class for more than a year. So yes, according to Paul, John the Apostle and Jesus Christ, I’m saved. And I stand on their word and their truth as recorded in the Bible.

Originally posted by @romans1009
But I didn’t make my decision until after I had read the Bible, conducted independent research on whether the Resurrection of Jesus Christ was true...

What “independent research” did you carry out that confirmed to you that the “resurrection of Jesus Christ was true”?

Originally posted by @romans1009
How is your repeated bearing of false witness against me and others and your constant condemnation of others following Christ? Is that what Christ did? Is that what Christ taught His followers to do?

You are taking issue with what Rajk999 says and how he behaves towards you and others on this forum and asking whether it is indicative of him "following Christ". Do you believe that what you yourself say and how you behave towards others on this forum is indicative of you "following Christ"?

Originally posted by @romans1009
Salvation by faith is Biblical.

Paul, who was handpicked by Jesus to deliver His Gospel to the Gentiles, said it:

“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

(Romans 10:9)

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of you ...[text shortened]... and Jesus Christ, I’m saved. And I stand on their word and their truth as recorded in the Bible.

You dont stand on their word. You are misrepresenting their word.

Paul told born again Christian Saints who are saved [like you], that they would not get eternal life in the Kingdom of God unless they lived righteously, avoided sin and do good works.

So clearly saved is not equal to eternal life.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
That it doesn't make sense to forgive without repentance.

It makes perfect sense to me and it is at the heart of the “gospel” of Jesus Christ which you quote all the time and which I’ve asked you to explain a dozen times... and which you refuse to. So it is of no surprise to me that it makes no sense to you.

Originally posted by @divegeester
What “independent research” did you carry out that confirmed to you that the “resurrection of Jesus Christ was true”?

You’ve already said you don’t read my posts and think I’m a loser so why should I waste my time answering you?

Originally posted by @romans1009
You’ve already said you don’t read my posts and think I’m a loser so why should I waste my time answering you?

You make intereting claims about yourself which I ask you about, I will understand if my question is about something you don’t want to answer.

Originally posted by @fmf
You are taking issue with what Rajk999 says and how he behaves towards you and others on this forum and asking whether it is indicative of him "following Christ". Do you believe that what you yourself say and how you behave towards others on this forum is indicative of you "following Christ"?

When I’m repeatedly trolled and attacked by multiple people at the same time, I sometimes react badly.

But even Jesus Christ reached His limit on occasion and not just with the Pharisees and money changers.

“And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying,

Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.

And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.

Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.”

(Matthew 17:14-17)

I guess it’s a good thing you, dive and Ghost weren’t around in Biblical times to witness that scene. You probably would have yelled out, “Hey Jesus, do you think rebuking that man is what a Christ follower would do?”

Originally posted by @divegeester
You make intereting claims about yourself which I ask you about, I will understand if my question is about something you don’t want to answer.

I told you why I’m not wasting my time writing out an answer. If you think it’s because of another reason, that’s fine. I couldn’t care less nor do I think you could either.