@kellyjay saidI just spent three posts unpicking your one crappy post full of error and hate. That’s a 3 to 1 ratio of me debunking your crap.
Long on spew, short on being able to back up your beliefs with the only thing that
should matter which is the scripture, the only source we have that tells us about
hell.
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Divegeester,
Occasionally you and sonship write a post and I just don’t know where to begin with unpicking the moral aberrations, logical fallacies, biblical contradictions and outlandish nonsense.
It is true that it seems many times you don't know where to start with something I quoted from the Bible. You'd like to start. But you don't know how to or how to finish because I present not my opinion but what the word of God says. It is not my fault or to my credit of invention.
In this thread, it is true, no one can think of anything worse than being forever condemned by God, not saved, not reconciled, not justified, not receiving His forgiveness.
We are not suppose to be able to think of anything worse. And this is by God's intention. It is bad enough as it is. You have devices to try to make it unimaginable.
But if God wanted it to be unimaginable He could have done so Himself.
He drew from things which occurred (unless you do no believe) to communicate that we MUST be reconciled to God. It is not acceptable to not be reconciled to God.
"And I saw a great white throne and HIm who sat upon it, from whose face earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them."
A moment is coming when there is nothing but a God created being face to face with God who is the ground of all being, all righteousness, all truth, but all salvation too if we listen to Him.
"And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, "
There is no exception. No status will cause a moral being to be exempt.
Angels who rebelled, demons - being who followed Satan, unbeieving human beings who in God's omniscient, omnipotent, and final authority calls to account according to His power and eternal administration of existence.
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"and scrolls were opened; and another scroll was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by the things which were written in the scrolls, according to their works."
There is the judgment according to their works.
And there is whether or not their names were recorded in the book of life.
We are not suppose to be able to think of anything worse than being condemned, unforgiven by God. And conversely we are not to imagine anything more wonderful than God having saved us from this ultimate judgment in coming up condemned forever but JUSTIFIED, REDEEMED, SAVED, DELIVERED through His salvation from sin and unbelief in the Ultimate Governor - God Whom Jesus called "Righteous Father" (John 17:25) .
And this, though there may be unknowns as to how He knows how to bring every being to this decision point. We know all will arrive. We know there is a gospel to receive.
Ignorance of some of the details as to HOW God knows a being's culpability is no excuse to reject a last judgment will be. Hope that God will overlook something unfairly is a vain hope. We are dealing with God.
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hadwes gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, each of them, according to their works.
And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire."
But there is the book of life.
All in death, all who died in a previous age whether pre-adamic beings, angels who followed Satan, unbelieving human beings. God will decide. The clincher most is does the offender's name appear in the book of life or not.
"And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." (v.15)
The footnote of the Recovery version reads -
"The perishing unbelievers will be judged according to the scrolls, which are a record of their works (vv. 22-13), but they will be cast into the lake of fire according to the book of life. This indicates that they are condemned by the Lord because of thier evil deeds but perish because of their unbelief, which issues in their not having their names written in the book of life. Not believing in the Lord Jesus is the unique sin that causes people to perish (John 16:9)."
Imagining that God is not able to conduct such a last judgment to me is a vain expectation. He knows whose name is to be written in this book of life.
We may not know all the details. But it is impossible for God to be unjust and not know in His omniscience.
Abraham understood God's ultimate wisdom and authority.
"Far be it from You to do such a thing, to put to death the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be as the wicked, Far be it from You! Shall the Judge of all the earth not do justly?" (Genesis 18:25)
It is better to beieve in the infallibility of God than to assume He is unable, unwise, unjust, unmerciful to know what He will judge according to truth.
If it were impossible for God to conduct a last judgment He would not have made it so crystal clear that it is coming. And He made it clear that He came to our Savior God in Jesus Christ.
I would warn anyone - put no hope in any concept of world citizenship that God is unable to cause a last judgment of all the dead.
@sonship saidNo that’s not what I discussed in my OP.
Divegeester,
In this thread, it is true, no one can think of anything worse than being forever condemned by God, not saved, not reconciled, not justified, not receiving His forgiveness.
What I said was I couldn’t think of anything worse anyone could do to another person person that what your version of Jesus does to billions of people. Deliberately.
@sonship saidBlah blah, blah blah blah, BLAH.
"and scrolls were opened; and another scroll was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by the things which were written in the scrolls, according to their works."
There is the judgment according to their works.
And there is whether or not their names were recorded in the book of life.
We are not suppose to be able to think ...[text shortened]... ope in any concept of world citizenship that God is unable to cause a last judgment of all the dead.
Might is right.
@divegeester saidYou brought up Hell; at least you should be able to talk about all of the who, what,
Start a thread on this side “counter-measure” topic if you like.
and why of the topic. Unless that isn't true, and it is not all about Hell, it is all about
your feelings about Hell and those that believe it's real. You refuse to answer
questions about it, so am I to conclude this is all about you and your moral compass?
This is all about your feeling?
@kellyjay saidThis thread topic is about your version of Christianity and it’s about the outcomes of your version of Jesus deliberately choosing to predestine a FEW and let the MANY perish at his own hands while he personally does to them “the worst thing” anyone can think of.
You brought up Hell; at least you should be able to talk about all of the who, what,
and why of the topic. Unless that isn't true, and it is not all about Hell, it is all about
your feelings about Hell and those that believe it's real. You refuse to answer
questions about it, so am I to conclude this is all about you and your moral compass?
This is all about your feeling?
You and sonship want to side track the conversation and I’m not going to let you, I can see why you are keen to do that though!
You asked
“Who will judge us, a servant of God or God, Jesus or another?”
This is a separate topic and you should start another thread on it if you want to discuss it.
@divegeester saidIf it is about my version of Christianity, why are you saying I cannot ask qualifying
This thread topic is about your version of Christianity and it’s about the outcomes of your version of Jesus deliberately choosing to predestine a FEW and let the MANY perish at his own hands while he personally does to them “the worst thing” anyone can think of.
You and sonship want to side track the conversation and I’m not going to let you, I can see why you are ke ...[text shortened]... her?”
This is a separate topic and you should start another thread on it if you want to discuss it.
questions? It is, after all, my version of Christianity; unless you are not telling the
truth, it is your version of Christianity?
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Might is right.
That "might" also includes His ability to offer ONE sacrifice for the purpose of saving all human beings from divine infallible condemnation.
One sacrifice He made Himself in His triune being.
"[the Son] Who, being the effulgence of His glory and the impress of His substance and upholding and bearing all things by the word of His power, having made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high" (Heb. 1:3)
One act of obedience of the Son of God who became man to secure redemption from all human sinners throughout all history, even retroactively somehow.
One life of perfection sacrificed for the redemption of transgressions against God for all.
But this One, having offered one sacrifice for sins, sat down forever on the right hand of God" (Heb. 10:12)
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The ultimate power is of God.
And the ultimate authority is of God.
The Son sat down temporarily at the right hand of God or forever?
The "blah, blah" word of God says "forever" Sorry Divegeester.
"But this One, having offered one sacrifice for sins, sat down FOREVER on the right hand of God,
Henceforth waiting until His enemies are made the footstool for His feet.
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified." (Hebews 10:12-14)
The Son of God sat down to make His enemies a footstool temporarily or forever?
Maybe I just seem upset, huh, Divegeester?
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Of old God said there is one Savior God, Himself.
"Declare and present your case;
Indeed, let them take counsel together.
Who related this long ago;
Who declared it from that time?
Was it not I, Jehovah?
And there is no other God besides Me.
A Righteous God and Savior,
And there is no one exept Me.
Turn to Me and be saved,
All the ends of the earth,
For I am God and there is no one else.
I have sworn by Myself;
And a word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness
And will not return,
That every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall swear,
It shall be said of Me, Only in Jehovah
Is there righteousness and strength.
To Him shall men come,
And all those who are burning in anger against Him shall be ashamed." (Isaiah 45:21-24)