Is religious indoctrination child abuse?

Originally posted by Eladar
I am trying to discuss indoctrination of religious beliefs.

Is the opposite of indoctrination free thought?

Or is everything indoctrination and freedom of thought an illusion?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Is the opposite of indoctrination free thought?

Or is everything indoctrination and freedom of thought an illusion?

How do you define free thought?

Originally posted by Eladar
How do you define free thought?

Free to think for yourself without being coerced by others.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Free to think for yourself without being coerced by others.

Do you think parents should have rules that their kids need to follow while they live with their parents or should kids be allowed to do whatever they want?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Free to think for yourself without being coerced by others.

Does that include teaching your own children what you think?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Do you think parents should have rules that their kids need to follow while they live with their parents or should kids be allowed to do whatever they want?

Didn't your parents apologize to you for the rules they needed you to follow while you lived with them and for you not having a normal life as a result?

Originally posted by FMF
Didn't your parents apologize to you for the rules they needed you to follow while you lived with them and for you not having a normal life as a result?

What does that have to do with the question I asked? As a parent you have no rules for your kids, is that correct?

Originally posted by dj2becker
What does that have to do with the question I asked?

Given your own prolonged exposure to psychological abuse and your parents' complicity in it, are you in a position to pontificate about parental rights and responsibilities with regard to indoctrinating their children?

Originally posted by dj2becker
As a parent you have no rules for your kids, is that correct?

Yes of course. But the overall objective is to equip them to think for themselves rather than to try to have them adopt the views I have.

Humans have to grow into their moral compasses and I believe this is more likely to be successful through socialization than through what others might describe as indoctrination.

I don't think I have a doctrine that I seek to foist upon my children. I don't think having the intellectual capacity to figure out what's morally sound and morally unsound is a doctrine so much as a facility and a capacity.

Originally posted by FMF
Given your own prolonged exposure to psychological abuse and your parents' complicity in it, are you in a position to pontificate about parental rights and responsibilities with regard to indoctrinating their children?

So you think because I actually have experienced psychological abuse personally I have no right to voice my opinion about it whereas you who have not experienced it personally are justified in voicing your opinion? 🙄

Originally posted by dj2becker
So you think because I actually have experienced psychological abuse personally I have no right to voice my opinion about it whereas you who have not experienced it personally are justified in voicing your opinion? 🙄

You can voice whatever opinion you like but should expect some people to be skeptical.

I think, because you have demonstrated that you are absolutely clueless about the psychological abuse and deliberate deprivation of children, and because you seem not to realize that your parents colluded with a cult to subject you to that abusive regime, then one should take with a pinch of salt any assertions you might make about how "parents should have rules that their kids need to follow while they live with their parents" in view of how you are in denial as to what your own parents did to you.

Originally posted by dj2becker
So you think because I actually have experienced psychological abuse personally I have no right to voice my opinion about it whereas you who have not experienced it personally are justified in voicing your opinion?

Who has said anything about you having "no right"?

Originally posted by FMF
You can voice whatever opinion you like but should expect some people to be skeptical.

I think, because you have demonstrated that you are absolutely clueless about the psychological abuse and deliberate deprivation of children, and because you seem not to realize that your parents colluded with a cult to subject you to that abusive regime, then one should t ...[text shortened]... ive with their parents" in view of how you are in denial as to what your own parents did to you.

The fact that you think I'm clueless and in denial about the supposed psychological abuse I suffered from is neither here nor there. How do you know that I suffered ?

Originally posted by dj2becker
The fact that you think I'm clueless and in denial about the supposed psychological abuse I suffered from is neither here nor there.

My view is that it is most certainly relevant. People only have to look at Thread 173077 to see why I think so. You have no morally sound parental model in your own life upon which to base your pronouncements about parental rights and responsibilities. A generous pinch of salt is certainly called for.

Originally posted by dj2becker
How do you know that I suffered] ?

You described it. In some detail. You also conceded that you have been damaged by it. And you told us your parents apologized for it.