23 Aug 12
Originally posted by galveston75You are misunderstanding what is written. Where does the bible ever use the word spirit being? The 144k are humans redeemed as first fruits by Christ but as has been
He was talking to the first ones of the "little flock" that he hand picked. Being born again only applies to those who are chosen to be a part of this group. None of the "great crowd" are born again into a spirit being. If we die we are simple resurrected back on the earth to be judged by Jesus and those 144,000 spirit beings.
noted "FIRST" fruits would mean there will be more to follow.
Manny
PS: I can tell you nobody at JW headquarters in Brooklin NY are part of the 144K
23 Aug 12
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71Attainment of Incorruption by Christians.
You are misunderstanding what is written. Where does the bible ever use the word spirit being? The 144k are humans redeemed as first fruits by Christ but as has been
noted "FIRST" fruits would mean there will be more to follow.
Manny
PS: I can tell you nobody at JW headquarters in Brooklin NY are part of the 144K
"As noted, the Hebrew Scriptures make no direct reference to incorruption, and they regularly stress the mortality of the human soul. Thus, the apostle says of Christ Jesus that he “has shed light upon life and incorruption through the good news.” (2Ti 1:10)
Through Jesus, God revealed the sacred secret of his purpose to grant to anointed Christians the privilege of reigning with his Son in the heavens. (Lu 12:32; Joh 14:2, 3; compare Eph 1:9-11.)
By resurrecting their Savior Jesus Christ from the dead, God has given such Christians the living hope of “an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading inheritance . . . reserved in the heavens.” (1Pe 1:3, 4, 18, 19; compare 1Co 9:25.) Such ones are born again while granted the position of spiritual sons of God, born of “incorruptible reproductive seed, through the word of the living and enduring God.”—1Pe 1:23; compare 1Jo 3:1, 9.
Though dealt with by God as his spiritual sons and although having the promise of an incorruptible inheritance, these Christians called to the heavenly Kingdom do not possess immortality or incorruption while yet on earth in the flesh. This is seen from the fact that they are “seeking glory and honor and incorruptibleness by endurance in work that is good.” (Ro 2:6, 7)
The “incorruptibleness” sought evidently does not mean merely freedom from moral corruption. By following Christ’s example and by faith in his ransom sacrifice, these Christians have already “escaped from the corruption that is in the world through lust” (2Pe 1:3, 4); they are “loving our Lord Jesus Christ in incorruptness” and ‘showing incorruptness in their teaching.’ (Eph 6:24; Tit 2:7, 8)
The incorruptibleness (along with glory and honor) they seek by faithful endurance relates to their glorification at the time of their resurrection as actual spirit sons of God, and this is evident from Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians."
This will probably make no sence to you, I hope it does but notice the explination that ones become spirit beings....
This being "born again" is not for those who remain on the earth in a fleshly body.
PS. Oh so you are now a judge of who is and isn't of the 144,000? Congatulations buddy!!!!!
24 Aug 12
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75I am beginning to think that perhaps the training technique I learned in the military may not work in the civilian world, when all you can do is talk. It seems to just cause disrespect on both sides and no building up is able to follow. (I can't force you to do any pushups.)
No problem, agreed.
PS. I have to commend you for the respect you've shown since your return. Thanks.
24 Aug 12
Originally posted by RJHindsIs 'building up' code for 'kicking the other guy's arse'? šµ
I am beginning to think that perhaps the training technique I learned in the military may not work in the civilian world, when all you can do is talk. It seems to just cause disrespect on both sides and no building up is able to follow.
24 Aug 12
Originally posted by galveston75It aint you or me LOL were not of the 144k
Attainment of Incorruption by Christians.
"As noted, the Hebrew Scriptures make no direct reference to incorruption, and they regularly stress the mortality of the human soul. Thus, the apostle says of Christ Jesus that he “has shed light upon life and incorruption through the good news.” (2Ti 1:10)
Through Jesus, God revealed the sacred secret ...[text shortened]... PS. Oh so you are now a judge of who is and isn't of the 144,000? Congatulations buddy!!!!!
Manny
24 Aug 12
Originally posted by galveston759 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; 10 and they cry out with a loud voice, saying,
Attainment of Incorruption by Christians.
"As noted, the Hebrew Scriptures make no direct reference to incorruption, and they regularly stress the mortality of the human soul. Thus, the apostle says of Christ Jesus that he “has shed light upon life and incorruption through the good news.” (2Ti 1:10)
Through Jesus, God revealed the sacred secret ...[text shortened]... PS. Oh so you are now a judge of who is and isn't of the 144,000? Congatulations buddy!!!!!
“ Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” 11 And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
And G-75 explain the great multitude? Standing before God on His throne ?
Which no one could count? sounds like more than 144k
Manny
24 Aug 12
3 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. 16 They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun [c]beat down on them, nor any heat; 17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the [d] water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.”
Read it carefully
G-Man
Manny Revelation 7
24 Aug 12
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71In Heaven or on Earth?
3 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 For this reason, they ...[text shortened]... ipe every tear from their eyes.”
Read it carefully
G-Man
Manny Revelation 7
How do we know that “standing before the throne” does not mean that the great crowd is in heaven?
There is much clear evidence on this point. For example, the Greek word here translated “before” (e·nopi·on) literally means “in [the] sight [of]” and is used several times of humans on earth who are “before” or “in the sight of” Jehovah. (1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:14; Romans 14:22; Galatians 1:20)
On one occasion when the Israelites were in the wilderness, Moses said to Aaron: “Say to the entire assembly of the sons of Israel, ‘Come near before Jehovah, because he has heard your murmurings.’” (Exodus 16:9) The Israelites did not have to be transported to heaven in order to stand before Jehovah on that occasion. (Compare Leviticus 24:8.) Rather, right there in the wilderness they stood in Jehovah’s view, and his attention was on them.
Additionally, we read: “When the Son of man arrives in his glory . . . all the nations will be gathered before him.” The whole human race will not be in heaven when this prophecy is fulfilled. Certainly, those who “depart into everlasting cutting-off” will not be in heaven. (Matthew 25:31-33, 41, 46)
Instead, mankind stands on earth in Jesus’ view, and he turns his attention to judging them. Similarly, the great crowd is “before the throne and before the Lamb” in that it stands in the view of Jehovah and his King, Christ Jesus, from whom it receives a favorable judgment.
The 24 elders and the anointed group of 144,000 are described as being “round about the throne” of Jehovah and “upon the [heavenly] Mount Zion.” (Revelation 4:4; 14:1)
(((((((The great crowd is not a priestly class and does not attain to that exalted position.))))))) True, it is later described at Revelation 7:15 as serving God “in his temple.” But this temple does not refer to the inner sanctuary, the Most Holy. Rather, it is the earthly courtyard of God’s spiritual temple. The Greek word na·os′, here translated “temple,” often conveys the broad sense of the entire edifice erected for Jehovah’s worship. Today, this is a spiritual structure that embraces both heaven and earth.—Compare Matthew 26:61; 27:5, 39, 40; Mark 15:29, 30; John 2:19-21.
24 Aug 12
Originally posted by galveston75In chapter 7, it is the 144,000 that are the remnant of the tribes of Israel that are on the Earth, because the angel with the seal of God has to first seal them on their foreheads before the other four angels are allowed to hurt the Earth.
In Heaven or on Earth?
How do we know that “standing before the throne” does not mean that the great crowd is in heaven?
There is much clear evidence on this point. For example, the Greek word here translated “before” (e·nopi·on) literally means “in [the] sight [of]” and is used several times of humans on earth who are “before” or “in the sight ...[text shortened]... braces both heaven and earth.—Compare Matthew 26:61; 27:5, 39, 40; Mark 15:29, 30; John 2:19-21.
Then in Chapter 12, John sees a vision of Satan the devil, represented as a dragon, coming down to Earth to persecute Israel, represented as a woman. The woman has protection given to her for 1260 days or about 3 1/2 years. I believe the woman represents the 144,000 from the tribes of Israel that are sealed by the angel in chapter 7.
So because Satan is unable to hurt the woman (the 144,00 Israelites), he goes off to make war against the rest of her offsprings (the Christians) who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. (Revelation 12:12)
In chapter 14, John sees a vision of Christ, represented as the Lamb, who has already returned to the Earth and saved the 144,000 remnant of Israel that have the seal of God on their forehead. The Lamb is seen standing on Mount Zion with the 144,000. The scripture says these 144,000 are the first fruits purchased from among men on the Earth by the blood of the Lamb.
Beginning in Chapter 19 verse 11, John's vision of Christ is no longer represented by a Lamb. Christ now is represented as a righteous warrior King with His army in Heaven ready to wage war against Satan and the armies on the Earth. In John's vision, Christ is now called "The Word of God" and is described as coming with the wrath of God, the Almighty, and with the name "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS" written on His thigh.
24 Aug 12
Originally posted by RJHindsSo what exactly do the 144,000 do?
In chapter 7, it is the 144,000 that are the remnant of the tribes of Israel that are on the Earth, because the angel with the seal of God has to first seal them on their foreheads before the other four angels are allowed to hurt the Earth.
Then in Chapter 12, John sees a vision of Satan the devil, represented as a dragon, coming down to Earth to persecu ...[text shortened]... , the Almighty, and with the name "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS" written on His thigh.
25 Aug 12
Originally posted by galveston75It says that they are the ones that follow the Lamb wherever He goes and that they sang a new song that no one else was able to learn. I do not know if there is any hidden mystery in this or exactly what all they do other than this.
So what exactly do the 144,000 do?
25 Aug 12
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsThat's true. Also they will be doing much more:
It says that they are the ones that follow the Lamb wherever He goes and that they sang a new song that no one else was able to learn. I do not know if there is any hidden mystery in this or exactly what all they do other than this.
Rev. 20:6: “They will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.” (Also Daniel 7:27)
1 Cor. 6:2: “Do you not know that the holy ones will judge the world?”
Rev. 5:10: “You made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over [“on,” RS, KJ, Dy; “over,” AT, Da, Kx, CC] the earth.” (The same Greek word and grammatical structure is found at Revelation 11:6. There RS, KJ, Dy, etc., all render it “over.&rdquoš
The reason we need to know this is it is a very exclusive group that has been chosen for this privileged assignment. Not all humans would qualify, but the humans that do still follow Jesus and his commands are indeed the "Great Crowd".