22 Mar 18
Originally posted by @karoly-aczelThe elephant is drinking gin in the moonlight.
It wont happen overnite but it will happen
Few are chosen because few choose themselves .
Define yourself everyday. To the hilt!
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Originally posted by @karoly-aczelWho on earth do you think I'm attacking?
Jesus wants you to put theory into action, change the world for the better. I dont think this thread will do much, its just another attack
John 10
38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”
John 10:38 is no more a claim by Jesus to be literally God than the passages cited below are claims that Jesus is calling for His followers to become literally God or Jesus.
Jesus calls for His followers to become "one" with God as He is "one" with God and utilizes metaphor to depict it. For example:
John 14
20“In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
John 15
4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
John 17
20 "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; 23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me."
No matter how much some may wish it otherwise, the fact remains that Jesus never claimed to be literally God.
"The truth will make you free"
22 Mar 18
Originally posted by @thinkofone"No matter how some may wish it otherwise, the fact remains that Jesus never claimed to be literally God."
John 10:38 is no more a claim by Jesus to be literally God than the passages cited below are claims that Jesus is calling for His followers to become literally God or Jesus.
No matter how some may wish it otherwise, the fact remains that Jesus never claimed to be literally God.
Jesus calls for His followers to become "one" with God as He is "one" w ...[text shortened]... that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me."
"The truth will make you free"
John 5:17&18
But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
¶ Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
To be equal with God is God. You are essentially making yourself equal with those that seek to kill Jesus.
Hebrews 1:1-8
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
¶ For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
¶ And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Philippians 2:5-7
¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
No matter how much you wish otherwise.
Originally posted by @secondsonIn the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry, He never claimed to be literally God. Evidently you believe in a different gospel.
[b]"No matter how some may wish it otherwise, the fact remains that Jesus never claimed to be literally God."
John 5:17&18
But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
¶ Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with ...[text shortened]... orm of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
No matter how much you wish otherwise.[/b]
What's more, evidently you so wish that Jesus claimed to be literally God that you are not only unable to make the distinction between Jesus claiming to be literally God and those other than Jesus claiming that He is literally God, you are unable to make the distinction between those other than Jesus claiming that He is literally God and those other than Jesus claiming that He is equal to God (John 5:17-18, Philippians 2:5-7 ) or a son of God (Hebrews 1:1-8).
"The truth will make you free".
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Originally posted by @thinkofoneJohn 20:28 Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
In the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry, He never claimed to be literally God. Evidently you believe in a different gospel.
What's more, evidently you so wish that Jesus claimed to be literally God that you are not only unable to make the distinction between Jesus claiming to be literally God and those other than Jesus claiming that He is ...[text shortened]... 17-18, Philippians 2:5-7 ) or a son of God (Hebrews 1:1-8).
"The truth will make you free".
22 Mar 18
Originally posted by @dj2beckerThomas did not believe that Jesus was raised from the dead.
John 20:28 Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Then he saw Jesus and believed
Jesus said blessed are those who have not seen him and believed that he raised from the dead.
Got it?
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Originally posted by @rajk999Yet you conveniently ignore: "My Lord and my God..."
Thomas did not believe that Jesus was raised from the dead.
Then he saw Jesus and believed
Jesus said blessed are those who have not seen him and believed that he raised from the dead.
Got it?
Got it?
Originally posted by @dj2beckerThomas says that.
Yet you conveniently ignore: "My Lord and my God..."
Got it?
Not Christ
Sheep follow Christ. Not Thomas
Goats follow anybody
Got it?
22 Mar 18
Originally posted by @dj2beckerA goat calling sheep delusional 😀
Feel free to continue in your delusion, I think you are just trolling Christians for the fun of it.
Originally posted by @dj2beckerAs rajk999 rightly pointed out, it is Thomas speaking and not Jesus.
John 20:28 Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
That said, it doesn't seem like you understand what Thomas is saying either.
Seems like most Christians seem to understand the concept of Jesus "abiding" in people and do not believe that those people and Jesus are literally one and the same.
Yet many seem not to be able to understand the concept of God "abiding" in Jesus in a similar manner.
Seems like most Christians seem to understand the concept of being able to "see Jesus" in the works some people do and do not believe that those people and Jesus are literally one and the same.
Yet many seem not to be able to understand the concept of being able to "see God" in the works Jesus did in a similar manner.
Perhaps these concepts can be best understood through the following:
John 14
9Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. 11“Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.
Clearly Jesus makes a distinction between Him and God.
Clearly Jesus expects Philip to be able to "see" the Father in the works that He does with the Father abiding / working within Him.
Jesus explains a similar concept here
John 12
44And Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45“He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me.
Clearly Jesus makes a distinction between Him and God.
Clearly Jesus expects His followers (believers) to be able to "see God" in Him. This is similar in concept to where Jesus expects Philip to "see" the Father in the works that He does with the Father abiding / working within Him.
It's not surprising that Thomas would echo these concepts in uttering the words, "My Lord and my God!".
Thomas is merely echoing the concepts Jesus explained in John 12 and John 14.
It does not mean that Jesus and God are literally one and the same.
22 Mar 18
Originally posted by @dj2beckerWhoever you see as a threat basically
Who on earth do you think I'm attacking?
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Originally posted by @karoly-aczelDo you feel threatened by people on an internet forum? I don't.
Whoever you see as a threat basically