31 Aug 10
Originally posted by twhiteheadI told you the answer to that question too, why you don't see answers right in
And every single time you follow the same pattern - despite knowing what is really being asked - you avoid the difficult aspects of the question.
You still haven't addressed the question of why God does not prevent such suffering even when caused by humans.
front of your face I fail to understand. God is dealing with them, and when He is
done they go away forever and all that cause such things will be dealt forever as
well.
Kelly
31 Aug 10
Originally posted by twhiteheadwho knows why?
He doesn't have to. I am just curious about why he doesn't. Whether my curiosity will be satisfied remains to be seen.
I often find Theists reluctant to answer certain questions, and although I can make wild guesses as to why that is, it is only fair to ask them directly.
maybe through suffering we grow stronger. maybe if there were no hardships in the world we would not progress. maybe not all can be happy at once, someone getting a promotion and being happy means someone has to not get it and be sad(just an example). maybe to appreciate happiness, one had to have suffered at one point. maybe one cannot simply ask the supreme being for anything anytime.
there are a lot of maybes.
i shared my view on the matter of hardship numerous times. without hardship, humans would not have descended from the trees. what use would it be to invent fire if the world would be of perfect temperature? if the fruits would be plentiful, would it be a need to invent new ways to kill a fast or dangerous animals to get meat? and so on.
31 Aug 10
Originally posted by ZahlanziThis, little children, is why we don't believe in evolution.
who knows why?
maybe through suffering we grow stronger. maybe if there were no hardships in the world we would not progress. maybe not all can be happy at once, someone getting a promotion and being happy means someone has to not get it and be sad(just an example). maybe to appreciate happiness, one had to have suffered at one point. maybe one cannot simp ...[text shortened]... ould it be a need to invent new ways to kill a fast or dangerous animals to get meat? and so on.
31 Aug 10
Originally posted by KellyJayThat isn't an answer to the question - which is why you believe I missed it.
I told you the answer to that question too, why you don't see answers right in
front of your face I fail to understand. God is dealing with them, and when He is
done they go away forever and all that cause such things will be dealt forever as
well.
Kelly
The question was: why doesn't God prevent such suffering. We know he doesn't prevent it. There must be a reason why. "He is dealing with it" is not an answer.
31 Aug 10
1 edit
Originally posted by ZahlanziGood answer.
who knows why?
i shared my view on the matter of hardship numerous times. without hardship, humans would not have descended from the trees. what use would it be to invent fire if the world would be of perfect temperature? if the fruits would be plentiful, would it be a need to invent new ways to kill a fast or dangerous animals to get meat? and so on.
But that doesn't fully address the issue of suffering that does not apparently result in any of those benefits. Nor is it clear that the extent of suffering is really necessary for those benefits.
A popular saying is "spare the rod, spoil the child" yet as a parent I am not convinced that beating children is the most effective method of teaching.
Another nice saying is "that which doesn't kill you, makes you stronger".
But again: that which kills you, simply kills you. And suffering is not the best or nicest way of getting stronger.
31 Aug 10
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999“…God will fix things when he is ready….”
God will fix things when he is ready. He has appointed a time for these things to happen. To your mind ".. he would just do it ..". But God has a plan which will unfold when he is ready to unfold it. Its not going to happen when YOU think it should. Your #2 is a bunch of assumptions and makes little sense, except maybe to your thinking. Your #3 - Yes like I ...[text shortened]... time to speak;
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace. [/i]
-so he isn’t kind enough to be “ready” to do it now and allow appalling suffering to young children –so this is a “kind” God? –ok, I don’t think YOU are saying he is an all-kind God (if I understand you correctly) so my argument is not with YOU here but with certain other theists that DO claim this.
“…He has appointed a time for these things to happen….”
Why? What need would an all-powerful God have with scheduling? We schedule because of practical reasons because we have limits on what order we can do things and how quickly because we are not all-powerful. But an all-powerful God would presumably have no such limits and would be able to do everything at once else he would not be all powerful –right? Why would he plan to do things at certain times when he has the power to simply dispense with such a redundant plan given his power and simply achieve whatever he wants to achieve in an instant?
Why should something that is “all-powerful” be limited and hindered by mere time?
“…To your mind ".. he would just do it .."…”
That logically follows from him being BOTH kind AND all-powerful -but only if there IS a God.
“…Your #2 is a bunch of assumptions…”
Its not me making these assumptions but rather certain (but not all) theists –specifically the assumptions that God is BOTH kind AND all-powerful –the rest of my deduction is based on those assumptions made by others.
“…Your #3 - Yes like I said before God is fully aware that life has problems, but again why should God fix problems becuase you THINK He should….” (my emphasis)
-I don’t THINK he should do anything because I don’t think “He” exists.
But if you believe that this “God” is both kind AND all-powerful and if you are logical then YOU should expect him to stop suffering now!
“..All your questions 1,2,3 revolve around one simple assumption and that is taht becuase you are not PLEASED with life as it exists now,…” (my emphasis)
What has whether I am “PLEASED” with my life got to do with my logical deduction?
A sound logical deduction is sound regardless of whether the person who made it is “PLEASED” with his life.
“…and you think that God is always good and does good…”
How can I think that when I am an ATHEIST? I don’t believe there exists this “God”. It is not me who believes “God” is all-kind.
“…that God should neccessarily change his pre-determined schedule to suit mankind. It does not work that way, and neither is that proof that God does not exist….”
Did I say that? No. It doesn’t prove God does not exist BUT logic and observation of the suffering of the innocent NOT caused by us does prove that God cannot be both all-kind and all-powerful like some but not all theists claim.
31 Aug 10
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonOk .. I will answer more later but when you talking to Christians you should ask them to quote the Bible to prove what they say. I showed you a very simple verse which shows that God is responsible for both good and evil in the world.
“…God will fix things when he is ready….”
-so he isn’t kind enough to be “ready” to do it now and allow appalling suffering to young children –so this is a “kind” God? –ok, I don’t think YOU are saying he is an all-kind God (if I understand you correctly) so my argument is not with YOU here but with certain other theists that DO claim this.
“…H ...[text shortened]... s prove that God cannot be both all-kind and all-powerful like some but not all theists claim.
31 Aug 10
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999Again - God is responsible to evil in the world (and good too, but that's another thing), repeat *evil* in the world?
God is responsible for both good and evil in the world.
God is evil? Okay, I get it.
That's one reason that I never can be a christian. I just cannot worship an evil god.
31 Aug 10
Originally posted by Rajk999“…you should ask them to quote the Bible to prove what they say…”
Ok .. I will answer more later but when you talking to Christians you should ask them to quote the Bible to prove what they say. I showed you a very simple verse which shows that God is responsible for both good and evil in the world.
My quarrel is NOT with their interpretation of the Bible because I honestly don’t know what is the “correct” (assuming there is such a thing) interpretation of the bible.
No, my quarrel is simply the illogic of some (not all) theists claim that God is BOTH all-kind AND all-powerful –that is all! –so whether I think they are “correctly” interpreting the Bible is irrelevant here –I don’t even have an opinion either way on that anyway!
01 Sep 10
Originally posted by twhitehead"...and when He is
That isn't an answer to the question - which is why you believe I missed it.
The question was: why doesn't God prevent such suffering. We know he doesn't prevent it. There must be a reason why. "He is dealing with it" is not an answer.
done they go away forever and all that cause such things will be dealt forever as
well. "
Kelly
01 Sep 10
Originally posted by KellyJaySo God is capable of eliminating suffering retroactively? How does he achieve that?
"...and when He is
done they go away forever and all that cause such things will be dealt forever as
well. "
Kelly
Are you saying that the suffering I received as a child, will no longer have happened?
01 Sep 10
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadDo you read my posts or not? Come on I told you God was dealing with suffering
So God is capable of eliminating suffering retroactively? How does he achieve that?
Are you saying that the suffering I received as a child, will no longer have happened?
and evil, and when He is done dealing with them they are gone forever and all
that are evil and cause suffering.
Kelly