01 Sep 10
Originally posted by KellyJayI read them and read them and I still don't understand what you are trying to say.
Do you read my posts or not? Come on I told you God was dealing with suffering
and evil, and when He is done dealing with them they are gone forever and all
that are evil and cause suffering.
Kelly
I suffered as a child. Will God 'deal with' that suffering. By 'deal with' do you mean he will make it not have happened, or do you mean something else?
02 Sep 10
Originally posted by twhiteheadI was thinking about this and I feel I need to make a correction and I'll try to
I read them and read them and I still don't understand what you are trying to say.
I suffered as a child. Will God 'deal with' that suffering. By 'deal with' do you mean he will make it not have happened, or do you mean something else?
clear up for you what I have been saying.
1. Evil, that which is the root cause for all the ills here in this life, and that is what
is being dealt with by God now. When He is done, all that does and is evil will be
forever put away and there will be suffering for evil, punishment will be delivered
that without mercy in any degree.
2. Here all that causes such things will be forever gone, no more.
3. Past pain and suffering will be forgotten or deemed completely nothing
compared to what is to come. With respect to your pain and suffering, I don't
know your relationship with God so I don't know where you'll end up, so I don’t
know the state you’ll be in forever and ever.
Kelly
02 Sep 10
Originally posted by KellyJaySo God will in fact cause even more suffering. Is there a reason why, or is it just one of those things that God does for no known reason?
1. Evil, that which is the root cause for all the ills here in this life, and that is what
is being dealt with by God now. When He is done, all that does and is evil will be
forever put away and there will be suffering for evil, punishment will be delivered
that without mercy in any degree.
3. Past pain and suffering will be forgotten or deemed completely nothing
compared to what is to come.
But not 'dealt with' or in any way removed or diminished. So the question remains unanswered: why did God stand by and allow it. If you don't know, why not just say so, instead of always sidestepping the question and claiming to have answered it when you haven't?
02 Sep 10
Originally posted by twhiteheadYes, God is going to cause suffering. The day of judgment will either see people
So God will in fact cause even more suffering. Is there a reason why, or is it just one of those things that God does for no known reason?
[b]3. Past pain and suffering will be forgotten or deemed completely nothing
compared to what is to come.
But not 'dealt with' or in any way removed or diminished. So the question remains unanswered: why did G ...[text shortened]... stead of always sidestepping the question and claiming to have answered it when you haven't?[/b]
getting mercy without limits or punishment without limits. With respect to
pass suffering those will be part of the judgment. I'm not side stepping anything,
I've been telling you that all accounts will be settled, that which is found to be
evil will be judged accordingly and that will be done without any mercy given. If
you have a claim against anyone I'm sure that will be laid out for all to see, just
as all that have claims against you will too, nothing will be hidden.
Kelly
02 Sep 10
Originally posted by 667joeYou seem to flip flop a lot about God, you say in on thread there isn't a God and
God is a sadist!
in this one you claim God is a sadist. So you believe in God, you just do not
approve of Him, or you don't think there is a God but you like calling things you
do not believe are real names?
Kelly
02 Sep 10
Originally posted by KellyJayThis comment goes for me too, I suppose.
You seem to flip flop a lot about God, you say in on thread there isn't a God and
in this one you claim God is a sadist. So you believe in God, you just do not
approve of Him, or you don't think there is a God but you like calling things you
do not believe are real names?
Kelly
The god some christians believe in is both evil and sadist.
This kind of god depicted in certain parts of the bible, I cannot believe in for my life.
Kelly seems to believe in this kind of evil and sadist god. I cannot imagine him praying his prayers before he goes to bed and still having a good night sleep without nightmares and at the same time saying he is happy with his life? (*shrug*)
02 Sep 10
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJay“…in this one you CLAIM God is a sadist…..” (my emphasis)
You seem to flip flop a lot about God, you say in on thread there isn't a God and
in this one you claim God is a sadist. So you believe in God, you just do not
approve of Him, or you don't think there is a God but you like calling things you
do not believe are real names?
Kelly
If 667joe said there isn't a God and THEN said “God is a sadist” (which he did) then what can be inferred from that is that “God is a sadist” in that context was not meant as an unqualified statement of fact but rather meant as a qualified statement of what WOULD be true ONLY if there is a God (which he doesn’t believe).
Atheists like myself sometimes make statement about “God” without bothering to qualify the statement with “IF there is God then…..”; you must take this prefix as simply inferred.
I might say: “God must be very indifferent” which, in the context of me being an atheists actually means “IF there is God then God must be very indifferent”.
02 Sep 10
Originally posted by KellyJayYes you are. You keep avoiding the question, over and over despite me restating it and clarifying it multiple times.
I'm not side stepping anything,...
The question is "why doesn't God prevent it?".
Stating that he will do something about it in future, is not an answer to the question, it is side stepping.
02 Sep 10
Originally posted by KellyJaySo if any child C suffers S then God will one day respond by going back in time and eliminating the suffering S of child C so that child C never suffered S. But, when that day comes and God eliminates S, child C would have never suffered S so God has no cause to go back in time to and eliminating the suffering S (because S never happened) and therefore he didn’t go back in time to eliminate the suffering S. Therefore the child C DID suffer S. ….and so on for infinitum.
"...and when He is
done they go away forever and all that cause such things will be dealt forever as
well. "
Kelly
What you are implying will happen here is a logical contradiction.
02 Sep 10
Originally posted by twhiteheadyes, but the death of individuals is irrelevant towards the progress of humanity as a species.
Good answer.
[b]i shared my view on the matter of hardship numerous times. without hardship, humans would not have descended from the trees. what use would it be to invent fire if the world would be of perfect temperature? if the fruits would be plentiful, would it be a need to invent new ways to kill a fast or dangerous animals to get meat? and so on. ...[text shortened]... ls you, simply kills you. And suffering is not the best or nicest way of getting stronger.
also the deal is that life is not fair, that we should make the best of what little time we have, knowing that it can end at any time. it gives a sense of urgency. it forces you to enjoy every moment.
"spare the rod, spoil the child"
my view that suffering leads to progress doesn't assume we should increase suffering ourselves. the progress i am talking about is exactly to reduce said suffering. obstacles are to be overcome. a decent example would be the farmer that breaks his tractor so he can plow with his horse. it is illogical.
02 Sep 10
Originally posted by ZahlanziAnd the progress of humanity as a species has practically nothing to do with morals.
yes, but the death of individuals is irrelevant towards the progress of humanity as a species.
You are essentially saying the progress of humanity as a species takes precedence over the suffering or death of the individual. Why do you see that as a good thing?
it forces you to enjoy every moment.
Does it? I thought the whole premise of thread was the fact that suffering occurs ie we do not enjoy every moment.
my view that suffering leads to progress doesn't assume we should increase suffering ourselves.
Why not? Your view is that suffering is necessary, so surely we should encourage it?
the progress i am talking about is exactly to reduce said suffering.
That makes no sense. We must suffer to reduce suffering?
obstacles are to be overcome. a decent example would be the farmer that breaks his tractor so he can plow with his horse. it is illogical.
And I don't understand the analogy. Whats the tractor represent?
02 Sep 10
1 edit
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonJust thought of an even simpler way of stating the logical paradox Kelly implied:
So if any child C suffers S then God will one day respond by going back in time and eliminating the suffering S of child C so that child C never suffered S. But, when that day comes and God eliminates S, child C would have never suffered S so God has no cause to go back in time to and eliminating the suffering S (because S never happened) and theref ...[text shortened]... .and so on for infinitum.
What you are implying will happen here is a logical contradiction.
If God WILL one day change history so that suffering of children will never had happen then such child-suffering will never have happened because it is inevitable that God will make it not happen.
But if it never happened then none of us would have ever observe it happening. But some of us HAVE observed it happening! So observation logically contradicts this claim. Therefore, God will NOT one day change history so that suffering of children will never have happen (not that I believe there is a “God” anyway ).
03 Sep 10
Originally posted by twhiteheadWhat is done is done, that is never going to change is that what you want, God
So God will in fact cause even more suffering. Is there a reason why, or is it just one of those things that God does for no known reason?
[b]3. Past pain and suffering will be forgotten or deemed completely nothing
compared to what is to come.
But not 'dealt with' or in any way removed or diminished. So the question remains unanswered: why did G ...[text shortened]... stead of always sidestepping the question and claiming to have answered it when you haven't?[/b]
was blind so He didn't see it to stop it? Justice will be done upon all of God's
creation from what was done to and by each of and to those thing done to and
from everywhere else.
Kelly