Morality without a deity.

@suzianne said
So you think this makes it okay to elect politicians who only think of punishing people and give no thought to working together to make things better? That's just... sick.

Where in world did that come from? Were we discussing politics?

@kellyjay said
Not following along again

I am following. And I am responding to what you posted. Is your belief in your God the only thing that's preventing you from feeling no different from a cockroach?

@fmf said
I am following. And I am responding to what you posted. Is your belief in your God the only thing that's preventing you from feeling no different from a cockroach?

You think evolution made you better than a roach?

@kellyjay said
You think evolution made you better than a roach?

Yes, I do. Of course, I do. If I find one day that things like my love for my wife, the feeling of having a baby, the experience of raising children, living a life of loving and being loved, living a life of learning and helping others to learn, etc. etc.

If I find one day that these things are also felt and experienced by cockroaches, and they can pass all this love of life and curiosity and knowledge and culture down to their descendants, then I might, I MIGHT admit that a cockroach is equal to me.

We shall see. I wonder how a cockroach might answer your question... oh no... wait...

Now, here is the question you were dodging with your counter-question: is your belief in your God the only thing that's preventing you from feeling no different from a cockroach?

@fmf said
Yes, I do. Of course, I do. If I find one day that things like my love for my wife, the feeling of having a baby, the experience of raising children, living a life of loving and being loved, living a life of learning and helping others to learn, etc. etc.

If I find one day that these things are also felt and experienced by cockroaches, and they can pass all this love of life ...[text shortened]... belief in your God the only thing that's preventing you from feeling no different from a cockroach?

If evolution is true, so what? You came up through time just like the roach, it has its strenghts and weaknesses and so do you, and you'll die and what go away like the roach so there is not difference in the long run no matter what your "feelings" were.

What scale do you use to say your different than a cockroach in meaning and worth? Your beginning and end are no different, you cannot do the things the cockroach does, what about a fish can you stay underwater like a fish, are you better than catfish, how about a bird you better than a crow? You live you die, what so stinking good about that? If evolution is true, the only thing you can say is you have these feelings, how do you know other creatures don't have them? You live you die, nothing different about you other than you like yourself and that isn't going to change anything.

@kellyjay said
What scale do you use to say your different than a cockroach in meaning and worth?

The life that I experience. The way I am affected by others. The way I can affect others. Loving and being loved gives my life meaning and worth. Learning and helping others to learn about life gives my life meaning and worth. Watching my children loving and being loved and learning and helping others to learn gives my life meaning and worth.

It matters not one whit to me that that is not enough for you. The fact that what I describe is not enough for you doesn't make your speculations about - and need for - a supernatural being and all the religious doctrines attendant thereto any more credible. It is not enough for you. It makes you think of cockroaches. Ho hum.

I will let cockroaches answer your equivalent question to them: What scale do you, a cockroach, use to say you're different than a human in meaning and worth?

@kellyjay said
You live you die, what so stinking good about that?

The things I described that happen in between are what's "good" about that. Indeed, I think it's wonderful. What a pity you don't find it to be enough.

@kellyjay said
You live you die, nothing different about you other than you like yourself and that isn't going to change anything.

It's "different" in the way I described. I change things every single day. I am changed every single day. I affect the people I love. People I love affect me. It's an amazing capacity that we humans have. What a shame of all this just makes you talk about cockroaches online.

@kellyjay said
Your beginning and end are no different, you cannot do the things the cockroach does, what about a fish can you stay underwater like a fish, are you better than catfish, how about a bird you better than a crow?

My answers regarding a fish [catfish] and a bird [crow] are more or less the same as my answer about a cockroach.

@kellyjay said
You came up through time just like the roach, it has its strenghts and weaknesses and so do you, and you'll die and what go away like the roach so there is not difference in the long run no matter what your "feelings" were.

What scale do you use to say your different than a cockroach in meaning and worth? Your beginning and end are no different, you cannot do the things t ...[text shortened]... e, nothing different about you other than you like yourself and that isn't going to change anything.

I'll let cockroaches speak for themselves about their strengths and weaknesses.

As for the fact that I will die and that my life has an end, I'm OK with that. You're not, presumably. You aspire to an afterlife and believe that - if you think certain things with great conviction and sincerity - that you can go on existing after your death. Good for you.

@kellyjay said
If evolution is true, the only thing you can say is you have these feelings, how do you know other creatures don't have them?

Good for them if they do.

@kellyjay said
What is important when God is off the table? Is human life more important than cockroach lives? According to what do you get your answer?

Is your belief in your God the only thing that's preventing you from feeling no different from a cockroach?

@fmf said
The life that I experience. The way I am affected by others. The way I can affect others. Loving and being loved gives my life meaning and worth. Learning and helping others to learn about life gives my life meaning and worth. Watching my children loving and being loved and learning and helping others to learn gives my life meaning and worth.

It matters not one whit to me tha ...[text shortened]... them: What scale do you, a cockroach, use to say you're different than a human in meaning and worth?

Ahh you see, our moral compasses are pointing in different directions evolution allows for that. Nothing is better than anything else, your life has much meaning as a roach, because your moral compass and the roaches are equal! Not one point of view has more merit than another. You and the roach, on the evolutionary scale, both born to die. You think love matters in evolution, did some cosmic alteration of DNA make that true how?

@fmf said
The things I described that happen in between are what's "good" about that. Indeed, I think it's wonderful. What a pity you don't find it to be enough.

How do you define good in a world of evolution without God? You like it so its good, what if roaches don't like it in greater numbers, that make it bad?

@kellyjay said
Ahh you see, our moral compasses are pointing in different directions evolution allows for that.

Your moral compass presumably points in a different direction from mine in some ways. This is because of anthropology and psychology and nature [evolution etc.] and nurture [experience etc.].