Morality without a deity.

@kellyjay said
If you are not pointing towards the better you are worse, than that would mean that not all views are equal!

You are entitled to your subjective views on what is "better" and "worse".

...then that would mean that not all views are equal!

I haven't said that "all views are equal". You are either not reading my posts or you are trying to attribute stuff to me that you are just making up.

@fmf said
Who am I to judge? I am me. You are you. You can also use your moral compass to decide whether you believe one thing is better than the next.

No, looking at the evolutionary process there is nothing in it that promotes one lifeform over an other, its all random change through natural selection there isn't any top of the heap there is just a bunch of life. You opinions and moral notions are no better than a cockroach with respect to life whose end is sure and will disappear in time into the void. If you think one is better than another it is your opinion yes, but it is arrogance there is nothing to base it on other than your conceit. You were born, you'll die, vanity of vanity, nothing new under the sun.

If there isn't anything that gives value there isn't anything, if there isn't a means of measuring good from evil, than nothing about life is either good or evil no matter how repulsive we think somethings are. Even pain and suffering are just amoral in how they affect life, only thing that could make evil real is a "good" by which it can fall short of.

I do believe in good, and it is someone we all owe our lives too.

@fmf said
You are entitled to your subjective views on what is "better" and "worse".

...then that would mean that not all views are equal!

I haven't said that "all views are equal". You are either not reading my posts or you are trying to attribute stuff to me that you are just making up.

I'm looking at the view of what a real world of evolutionary foundation means, it removes meaning stripping out all value so that nothing is good or evil, better or worse. I'm not making this up, and I'm most certainly not the first to say such things. If you promote a Godless evolutionary foundation for life you and the cockroaches are simply related by a common ancestor, and took a different path in evolution one no better than the next.

@kellyjay said
No, looking at the evolutionary process there is nothing in it that promotes one lifeform over an other, its all random change through natural selection there isn't any top of the heap there is just a bunch of life.

It's promoted us "over" cockroaches and crows and catfish because it has evidently endowed us with a brain large enough to host the capacity for projecting ourselves in abstract ways and also we are affected and influenced and shaped by the abstract projections of other people. It has not endowed cockroaches and crows and catfish in this way.

@kellyjay said
I'm looking at the view of what a real world of evolutionary foundation means, it removes meaning stripping out all value so that nothing is good or evil, better or worse.

Nonsense. All meaning is not "removed". That's nonsense. All value is not "stripped out". More nonsense. It's nonsense to claim "nothing is good or evil". And it's nonsense to claim nothing is "better or worse".

@fmf said
It's promoted us "over" cockroaches and crows and catfish because it has evidently endowed us with a brain large enough to host the capacity for projecting ourselves in abstract ways and also we are affected and influenced and shaped by the abstract projections of other people. It has not endowed cockroaches and crows and catfish in this way.

You are not over anything! Large brains are nothing in time, they will rot when you die like the rest of your body! The abstract is meaningless in time and space, what sets you apart from anything if it all occurred by a happenstance of good fortune in time and space without meaning? You cannot even claim progress, since evolution doesn't have a goal, it just is.

@kellyjay said
If you promote a Godless evolutionary foundation for life you and the cockroaches are simply related by a common ancestor, and took a different path in evolution one no better than the next.

Without your belief in your God, would you think that humans and cockroaches were not different from each other?

Are you trying to attribute the belief that "humans and cockroaches are not different from each other" to me?

@fmf said
Nonsense. All meaning is not "removed". That's nonsense. All value is not "stripped out". More nonsense. It's nonsense to claim "nothing is good or evil". And it's nonsense to claim nothing is "better or worse".

You cannot have evil without good! You cannot have good without a standard that is absolute, a random every moral compass points in a different direction doesn't give you good or evil, it gives nothing, pointing at everything is just like pointing at nothing.

@kellyjay said
You are not over anything! Large brains are nothing in time, they will rot when you die like the rest of your body!

I don't have any problem with the fact that we all die and that we are then "nothing" after that. If you believe you will have an afterlife, that's fine by me.

@fmf said
I don't have any problem with the fact that we all die and that we are then "nothing" after that. If you believe you will have an afterlife, that's fine by me.

Why should your view matter you are nothing more than a lifeform no different than a cockroach?

@kellyjay said
The abstract is meaningless in time and space, what sets you apart from anything if it all occurred by a happenstance of good fortune in time and space without meaning?

"The abstract" is what it makes being a human being so wonderful and it makes this finite existence that we have such an amazing opportunity.

@kellyjay said
You cannot even claim progress, since evolution doesn't have a goal, it just is.

Humans find or create their own meaning and purpose in life.

@fmf said
Without your belief in your God, would you think that humans and cockroaches were not different from each other?

Are you trying to attribute the belief that "humans and cockroaches are not different from each other" to me?

Yes, with God things line up as He designed them. You by design would be made in the image of God. You have worth beyond measure, your creator loves you as you are without question. The cockroach would simply be a bug to you, something to keep out of your house.

@kellyjay said
You cannot have good without a standard that is absolute, a random every moral compass points in a different direction doesn't give you good or evil, it gives nothing, pointing at everything is just like pointing at nothing.

Feel free to promote your personal opinions about "a standard that is absolute". We are all moral agents. If you believe that moral compasses that point in a way you disagree with or disapprove are "pointing at nothing", then you really should get out there and promote your subjective views and associate with people who share them.

@kellyjay said
Why should your view matter you are nothing more than a lifeform no different than a cockroach?

I am not "no different than a cockroach".

If you think my ideas on morality do not matter because you see me as "a lifeform no different than a cockroach", then that is your prerogative.