Morality without a deity.

@kellyjay said
You have a limited life at the moment cradle to grave, all you know is between those two points in time.

The same applies to you kelly and any notion you have of the divine.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Hey darfius, welcome back. Try to hold off a little longer in your capitulation this time, there's a good chap.

My argument is fully supported by history and reason. The Maker you speak of,...not so much.

The Ghost claims capitulation by absentia.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
The same applies to you kelly and any notion you have of the divine.

I believe the universe had a beginning, I believe all life is a result of design.
We can discuss these things, you can tell me what you believe, then we can weigh the options on which one seems to fit the evidence.

I believe there is a moral law giver, that we all are aware of this and it isn't a man made law either or we could just turn it off whenever we wanted. We can discuss this if you disagree and see which view fits the evidence.

I believe the scriptures are the word of God, that they were divinely inspired unlike any other writing in the past or present. You have another notion we can discuss this and see which view fits the evidence.

If all you are going to do is say that is your opinion, so what!

@kellyjay said
I answered those questions before you asked them, "Bearing in mind..."

Why will you not answer them again?
Simple Y or N.

Just for clarification.

@kellyjay said
Yes, that is true and truth claims need to be checked out. Can life spring out of natural unguided processes regardless of how much time is needed? Can the needed information inside living cells to direct and preform tasks just happen by natural unguided processes regardless of how much time is needed?

Look at what Dawkins said about life, what he studied appeared to be d ...[text shortened]... ired, a lack of design cannot be said to be the better choice because it doesn't require a designer.

Your religious beliefs and your beliefs about what Darwin thought do not create any moral imperatives for me.

@kellyjay said
You have a limited life at the moment cradle to grave, all you know is between those two points in time.

I don't have any problem with this. You seem to be not absorbing what I am saying in my posts.

@kellyjay said
You have no way to know what comes after you die, unless there is something trustworthy that shares that information.

We no way to know what comes after we die. This is OK. I am not worried by this fact.

@kellyjay said
You have no way to know what was before you were born except what is documented one way or another.

We have many ways of knowing what happened before we were born. Culture is amazing. History is amazing. Families are amazing. Learning about these things is amazing as is passing on our knowledge to the generations that follow us.

@kellyjay said
I submit to you perceiving and interaction can lead you down the wrong path with respect to reality. You think something is true and it colors all other things in your life, true or not. We should try what we think is true, test it, make it stand up to the questions being asked, and not take our bias as the scale of truth, we can be wrong.

In other words, we disagree about all this stuff. If you think all your beliefs in supernatural causality and "sin" and morality stand up to scrutiny and that you are not biased, and that your take on reality is "true", I am fine with that.

@kellyjay said
As we have been talking about people have views with which they look at the world some see life starting due to a creator, some see it as nothing but chemicals coming together over time evolving into what we see today. Both interact in the same world, their world views color the world around them, but that is only affecting their opinions not the reality around which isn't changing to suit them.

As I said before, we can but speculate. We are both subjective in the sense we make of the reality in which we live. You have your opinions and I have mine. Yours create no moral obligations for me, just as mine create no moral obligations for me. Our moral obligations derive from how our moral compasses process and react to the values and norms [and laws] of the societies in which we live.

@wolfgang59 said
Why will you not answer them again?
Simple Y or N.

Just for clarification.

Pick one, as I said I was clear before if that wasn't good enough don't know what to tell you.

@fmf said
Your religious beliefs and your beliefs about what Darwin thought do not create any moral imperatives for me.

They are removed with Darwin, there are no real standards for right and wrong. All of our moral imperatives become based upon human whims which are so fickle they can change from moment to moment. All compasses point where ever people want them to, there isn't anything to suggest this one is better than the next.

@fmf said
We no way to know what comes after we die. This is OK. I am not worried by this fact.

Sure, if you believe God when He became a man He told us what is to come after we die. There is an appointed time for each of us to die and after that judgment.

@fmf said
In other words, we disagree about all this stuff. If you think all your beliefs in supernatural causality and "sin" and morality stand up to scrutiny and that you are not biased, and that your take on reality is "true", I am fine with that.

Would it matter if you were not?

@kellyjay said
Would it matter if you were not?

If I were not what?