Name that scripture

Originally posted by Eladar
Because the terms brother and sisters in Christ is the same thing as a Christian.

Good point

Originally posted by Suzianne
And I recognize you as a modern-day Pharisee.

Condemning others yet not giving the slightest care for the beam in your own eye.

I'm sure that is what a daughter of Satan would see. You are definitely one who believes evil to be good and good evil.

Originally posted by Eladar
I'm sure that is what a daughter of Satan would see. You are definitely one who believes evil to be good and good evil.

You're an embarrassment to Christ and his teaching.

Originally posted by Suzianne
You're an embarrassment to Christ and his teaching.

Says the heretic.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Please in scripture name the verse where God says He is going to reject any Christian! He says in several places about rejecting the unrighteous, but no where does He call a Christian unrighteous. There are false brethren I reject calling them Christian.

Kelly, there are some passages about a defeated Christian servant of Christ. That is instead of overcoming and victorious, he is defeated and even the word "evil" is used.

Matthew 24:45-51 is about Christ warning His disciples to be about the proper serving of Him when He comes again. And He says -

"Blessed is that slave whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. Truly I say to you that he will set him over all his possessions.

But if that evil slave says in his heart, My master delays, and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eats and drinks with the drunken,

the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, ..."

My quotation is truncated in order to highlight the points that need to be made.

1.) This slave is called "evil" .

2.) No unbeliever is a slave or servant of Jesus Christ. And he or she would not own Christ as a "master" . The "master" / "slave" relationship proves that this person is a servant of Christ the Lord. Hence he must be genuinely saved.

3.) If it is a false Christian than you would be saying that salvation is by working for Christ.
Salvation is not by working for Christ but by believing in Christ. Reward or discipline in the next age will be influenced by serving, forgiving others, sanctification.

4.) The words "begins to beat his fellow slaves" should mean to mistreat his fellow Christian brothers who are also servants of Christ.

The main point of this post is that the word "evil" is used to describe this servant. He has decided that Jesus is delaying His coming. And because there is no sober concern for how he is acting when Jesus, his "master" comes, he takes advantage of the situation in a foolish and negligent way. Christ returns on him unexpectedly.

Verse 51 says -

"And will cut him asunder and appoint his portion with the hypocrites. In that place there will be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth."

For some Christians who are eternally redeemed, Christ will cause them to temporarily feel what it is like to be rejected by the Lord as a discipline. This is a temporary punishment during the millennial kingdom.

Originally posted by sonship
Kelly, there are some passages about a defeated Christian servant of Christ. That is instead of overcoming and victorious defeated and even the word "evil" is used.

[b] Matthew 24:45-51 is about Christ warning His disciples to be about the proper serving of Him when He comes again. And He says -

[quote] "Blessed is that slave whom his master, ...[text shortened]... ected by the Lord as a discipline. This is a temporary punishment during the millennial kingdom.

I agree, that there are scripture that talks about a defeated Christian, and there are more
than one that gives clear warnings about turning away from sins. We are not to walk out
our lives as sinners, we are not to follow sin instead of God. To make that lifestyle choice
puts us in danger to being over come by sin and losing out with the Lord. I know some
here think once saved always saved, but there are to many clear warnings about not
living in a sinful lifestyle for that to be true in my opinion.

That said, Christ died and became sin for us so we can start our walk with the Lord. He
died for us while we were yet sinners, not that we should continue in sin, but instead follow
His Spirit, learning of Him.

Some here take that to mean that He is okay with sin, He is not, but He is dealing with it
in us. None of us are free from sin we are all sinners, and if He comes into any of our lives
He is coming into a SINNER, without exception to save and redeem us.

Originally posted by sonship
..For some Christians who are eternally redeemed, Christ will cause them to temporarily feel what it is like to be rejected by the Lord as a discipline. This is a temporary punishment during the millennial kingdom.

Show where this is in the Bible.

1. Who are those that are eternally redeemed,
2. Where does Christ say he will cause them to temporarily feel what it is like to be rejected by the Lord as a discipline.
3. Where does the Bible say this is a temporary punishment during the millennial kingdom

Originally posted by Rajk999

1. Who are those that are eternally redeemed,

Every person in Christ is eternally redeemed.
The phrase "eternal redemption" is found in Hebrews 9:12.

"And not through the blood of goats and calves but through His own blood, enetered once for all into the Holy if Holies, obtaining an eternal redemption." (Heb. 9:12)

Everyone for whom Christ obtained "an eternal redemption", also will partake of "an eternal inheritance" .

"And because of this He is the Mediator of a new covenant, so that, death having taken place for redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, those who have been called might receive the promise of the eternal inheritance." (v.15)

Don't ask me to give you all the names.
I don't know all the names in the book of life.

2. Where does Christ say he will cause them to temporarily feel what it is like to be rejected by the Lord as a discipline.

The term "suffer loss" in First Corinthians 3:15 is open ended and includes a wide range of things God can do. At the most severe end of that wide scope is to be "hurt by the second death" (Rev. 2:11) .

I did not say that ALL suffering of loss is equal to being hurt by the second death.
I said that at the most severe END of the wide spectrum of possible things God might do to correct His own sons, there is included the possibility of being "hurt by the second death.".

There is no doubt that there will be different levels of discipline to the people of God in the millennium who thus NEED discipline.

Proof - Luke 12:46-48:

" The master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, and will cut him asunder, and will appoint his portion with the unbelievers.

And that slave who knew his master's will and did not prepare or do accroding to his will, will receive many lashes.

But he who did not know, yet did things worthy of stripes, will receive few lashes. But to every one to whom much has been given, must will be required from him; and to whom much has been committed, they will ask of him all the more." (Luke 12:46-48)

The discipline is apparently according to knowledge of what God's will was.
Many lashes verses few lashes indicates punishment appropriate to the degree of culpability.

Therefore, for the Christian to "suffer loss" but be saved "yet so as through fire" must include a scope of few to many "lashes". That means degrees of discipline will vary.

In teaching this is is ALWAYS good to remember that the merciful among Christians, will obtain mercy at the judgment seat of Christ.

"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy." (Matt. 5:7)

"Do not judge, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged, and with what measure you measure, it shall be measured to you." (Matt. 7:1,2)

" For the judgment is without mercy to him who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment." (James 2:13)

Since all Christians fall short in obedience it is best to remember this and be merciful with others, yet strict with one's self in the Christian walk.

But WOE to any Christian brother or sister, who is merciful always towards his or her self yet exacting, legal and strict towards other Christians. Though this is the natural tendency Christians should overcome the natural tendency.

Strict towards ourselves.
Merciful towards others.

That is the combination we need in Christ.

3. Where does the Bible say this is a temporary punishment during the millennial kingdom

I will only answer you this question in this way. Every believer has a destiny to be conformed to the image of Christ (Rom. 8:29). Therefore ANY necessary discipline either before or during the thousand year millennium HAS to be TEMPORARY.

And suffering of loss has to be temporary.
And in the age of the new heaven and new earth all the sons of God are perfected and there is NO blemish or sin left in God's sons. SO ... any discipline to achieve this destiny in God's children, either during the church age or during the one thousand years, HAS to be TEMPORARY in nature.

Logically it should not exceed one thousand years.
Perhaps there are cases when it is some portion of that time.
But by the time of the new heaven and new earth - the eternal age, ALL of God's sons have been perfected.

"Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and WITHOUT BLEMISH before Him in love,

Predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will." (Eph. 1:4,5)

"But to Him who is able to guard you from stumbling and to set you before His glory without blemish in exultation, to the only God our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord ..." (See Jude 24,25)

Chirst lives forever to intercede for the saved. And He is able to save them to the UTTERMOST (Hebrews 7:25) .

Discipline upon those who have eternal life and eternal redemption therefore has to be of a temporary nature.

Originally posted by sonship

3. Where does the Bible say this is a temporary punishment during the millennial kingdom

I will only answer you this question in this way. Every believer has a destiny to be conformed to the image of Christ [b](Rom. 8:29). Therefore ANY necessary discipline either before or during the thousand year millennium HAS to be [i ...[text shortened]... on those who have eternal life and eternal redemption therefore has to be of a temporary nature.[/b]

I think the problem with people who want or see Christians going into the Lake of fire is that they take loss of rewards and punishment too lightly.
There is punishment for these kinds of Christians, but the bible does not reveal much detail. I for one would not like to meet Jesus and be ashamed at His coming, nor suffer loss or punishment.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I think the problem with people who want or see Christians going into the Lake of fire is that they take loss of rewards and punishment too lightly.
There is punishment for these kinds of Christians, but the bible does not reveal much detail. I for one would not like to meet Jesus and be ashamed at His coming, nor suffer loss or punishment.

The Bible reveals sufficient detail for those who can read and understand. The Christian who is judged to be evil and unworthy of the Kingdom of God will be in a worse position than if he did not know Christ in the first place.

Originally posted by Rajk999
The Bible reveals sufficient detail for those who can read and understand. The Christian who is judged to be evil and unworthy of the Kingdom of God will be in a worse position than if he did not know Christ in the first place.

You are like a baby in Christ who after many years when you should be a teacher, you are still in diapers
That is what your insight and bible understanding reveal.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
You are like a baby in Christ who after many years when you should be a teacher, you are still in diapers
That is what your insight and bible understanding reveal.

Opinions are nice but doctrine comes from the Bible. Keep your opinions to yourself and lets talk some Bible doctrine. If it is case I lack understanding of that particular point then show me some bible support for what you said.

Here is what the Bible says about those who are given the Holy word of God and who turn away from it:

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world
through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,
they are again entangled therein, and overcome,
the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness,
than, after they have known it,
to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb,
The dog is turned to his own vomit again;
and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
(2 Peter 2:20-22 KJV)

Read it. Its simple and clear enough. Jesus and Paul said the same thing.

And I already heard your nonsense rebuttal that it applies to angels who turned evil. It applies to Christians as well.

So Mr Mature Christian who dont wear diapers .. lets hear you.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Opinions are nice but doctrine comes from the Bible. Keep your opinions to yourself and lets talk some Bible doctrine. If it is case I lack understanding of that particular point then show me some bible support for what you said.

Here is what the Bible says about those who are given the Holy word of God and who turn away from it:

[i]For if after the ...[text shortened]... plies to Christians as well.

So Mr Mature Christian who dont wear diapers .. lets hear you.

The people you mention in 2 Peter were never saved in the first place. They infiltrated the Church, and became influential members of it, but never really made a heart commitment to Jesus Christ as Lord and never became saved.
This is much easier to see when 2 Peter 2 is read in light of the Book of Jude, which covers much of the same material.
This not speaking of believers who were part of the congregation and then turned away from the Lord. This is clear in Jude, which says that these people “crept in unnoticed,” were “ungodly,” and denied Christ.