03 Dec 12
Originally posted by FMFGot another one:
Here's another one:
[quote]Then I saw another beast [an actual one] rising out of the earth. It had two horns (real ones) like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon [literally]. It exercises all the authority of the first beast (because of its similar beastly authority) in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal ...[text shortened]... he subjects this - or your - claim to whatever he reckons "falsification" is, it "stands".
Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns ( Rome & Constantinople) like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercises all the authority of the first beast ( Roman Catholic Church )in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed.
- Joined
- 30 Dec 04
- Moves
- 94816
03 Dec 12
Originally posted by SuzianneI thought I'd give you a more sensical deserved reply. My first one was hurried because I wS on my way into work.
I think there is a huge difference between discussing the Bible on an internet forum and giving opinions and actually "adding to His words", i.e. misrepresenting what is there.
We have opinions, we're human. Get over it.
I actually found Galvestons reply/answer to you interesting. I had never heard that before. I therefore went to scripture to study his response. As you pointed out it was his opinion. Nothing in scripture supports his thoughts. Now I am not saying he is wrong, as you said, opinion is just that, opinion.
I was merely pointing that out to him because he really didnt put it out as opinion at that time. His response to me made it clear he was going under assumptions and I am fine with that. I even told him that some of his assumptions may be right.
What I'm not so clear on is why 'you' were offended and felt the need to attack me? I have seen that if Galveston has felt he was wronged, that he is quite capable of defending himself. I have seen you defend yourself also, so may I ask how my interaction with G75 ruffled your feathers?
03 Dec 12
Originally posted by Proper KnobThis is meaningless, you have NOT falsified the Gmans claims all you have done is
Got another one:
Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns ( Rome & Constantinople) like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercises all the authority of the first beast ( Roman Catholic Church )in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed.
provide an alternative interpretation without the slightest reference to a single reason.
Either subject the Gmans claims to falsification or admit that you have no way of
determining whether they are true or otherwise. As far as i can discern, although i
have not read the entire text, the Gman had at least the decency to provide reasons.
03 Dec 12
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI don't think galveston75 has "provided reasons" in any credible sense. He just put words in brackets - exactly like Proper Knob did. And then he said he had "NO doubt" he was right. Once again: in what way has galveston75 proved that he is "right" about, say, the League of Nations being "described" in Revelation 13:11-15?
This is meaningless, you have NOT falsified the Gmans claims all you have done is
provide an alternative interpretation without the slightest reference to a single reason.
Either subject the Gmans claims to falsification or admit that you have no way of
determining whether they are true or otherwise. As far as i can discern, although i
have not read the entire text, the Gman had at least the decency to provide reasons.
03 Dec 12
robbie,
compare galveston75's version...
11 Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns ( USA & Britian ) like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercises all the authority of the first beast ( League of Nations )in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed. ( It became the United nations )
To Proper Knob's version...
Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns (Germany & France ) like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercises all the authority of the first beast ( European Economic Community )in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed. ( It became the European Union )
03 Dec 12
1 edit
Originally posted by Proper Knobyes you can state your opinion, but it does not falsify the Gmans claims and he is
Your hilarious, when have you ever had to subject claims to falsification before you expressed an opinion on something? Anyhow, here's a quick alternative explanation -
Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns ( Germany & France ) like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercises all the authority of the first be ...[text shortened]... was healed. ( It became the European Union )
Am i allowed to state my opinion now?
therefore, by extension, perfectly entitled to state that your opinion is wrong and his is
correct, why?
1. you have provided no reasons, he did
2. you have not subjected his claim to falsification.
03 Dec 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe countries of the Germany and France is described in Revelation as a duel world power that does exactly as you have described here with their forced influance in most of the world since their beginnings of a few hundred years now.
yes you can state your opinion, but it does not falsify the Gmans claims and he is
therefore, by extension, perfectly entitled to state that your opinion is wrong and his is
correct, why?
1. you have provided no reasons, he did
2. you have not subjected his claim to falsification.
Revelation 13:11-15
English Standard Version (ESV)
The Second Beast
11 Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns ( Germany & France) like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercises all the authority of the first beast ( European Economic Community )in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed. ( It became the European Union )
13 It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people, 14 and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast it deceives those who dwell on earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.
Notice it has horns like a peaceful lamb but yet speaks like a dragon. It has the appearance and actions at times as a peace maker but yet has the actions of a deadly dragon as history has shown over and over. Those offensive actions are usually in responce to protecting their interest and not always in the interest of peace.
03 Dec 12
Originally posted by Proper KnobI appreciate your opinion and explination. But the simple question is why can't this scripture apply to the description I posted of the duel powers of the USA and Brittian?
The countries of the Germany and France is described in Revelation as a duel world power that does exactly as you have described here with their forced influance in most of the world since their beginnings of a few hundred years now.
Revelation 13:11-15
English Standard Version (ESV)
The Second Beast
11 Then I saw another beast rising out o ...[text shortened]... ns are usually in responce to protecting their interest and not always in the interest of peace.
Does it touch a nerve because of ones here living in these countries and it affects ones allengiance to them?
Or possibly the fact that we are living in this exact time these scriptures are speaking of and most don't like that and feel that the bible's prophecies just don't apply to "our time" because of the implications that brings?
The bible's description of these duel world powers are there for a reason. If this description did not have a fulfillment that is being described in this fashion as being a power that would have massive influance over the world then it would not really have the affect the Bible is trying to tell us.
True the world or at least a part of it may have been affected by the one you've described by Germany and France. No doubt.
But does this really compare to the USA's and Brittans influance?
Also what country has been more behind the original League of Nations and then the United Nations then the two I'm speaking of as opposed to Germany, France?
1986 Watchtower: "Here is John’s description of this final beast: “A scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads and ten horns.” Regarding this beast, John was told: “The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction. . . . It is also itself an eighth king.” (Revelation 17:3, 8, 11)
True to this description, the League of Nations tried to act like a world power on the world scene. However, it failed to prevent World War II, which started in 1939. The beast disappeared, as it were, into the abyss.
During World War II, the Anglo-American world power worked hard to revive that international organization. In 1941 the prime minister of Great Britain, Winston Churchill, held secret talks with President Franklin Roosevelt of the United States on board a ship in the Atlantic ocean. They made a joint declaration about “their hopes for a better future for the world” and “the establishment of a wider and permanent system of general security.” The following year in Washington, D.C., 26 nations subscribed to this Anglo-American proposal in what was called the “Declaration by United Nations.” This led to the creation of the United Nations organization on October 24, 1945. The scarlet beast had ascended out of the abyss with a new name. At present, 159 nations have joined this organization, which, they hope, will perpetuate the now-existing system of human political rulership."
03 Dec 12
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75But who is claiming that Revelation 13:11-15 is "describing" the League of Nations? Proper Knob isn't.
Also what country has been more behind the original League of Nations and then the United Nations then the two I'm speaking of as opposed to Germany, France?
Did you know that the U.S. did not ratify and therefore did not join the League of Nations?
03 Dec 12
Originally posted by galveston75The bible's description of these duel world powers are there for a reason.
I appreciate your opinion and explination. But the simple question is why can't this scripture apply to the description I posted of the duel powers of the USA and Brittian?
Does it touch a nerve because of ones here living in these countries and it affects ones allengiance to them?
Or possibly the fact that we are living in this exact time these scri ...[text shortened]... h, they hope, will perpetuate the now-existing system of human political rulership."
But that's the point, the Bible doesn't describe these dual powers. You're adding these words to fit you're own interpretation, which is something the Bible clearly warns against ie. Proverbs 30:16.
03 Dec 12
Originally posted by Proper KnobI could say the exact thing about your description, right? So how does one come to a conclusion to whom this scripture is speaking of?
[b]The bible's description of these duel world powers are there for a reason.
But that's the point, the Bible doesn't describe these dual powers. You're adding these words to fit you're own interpretation, which is something the Bible clearly warns against ie. Proverbs 30:16.[/b]
If no one cannot figure out who this scripture really applies to then why is it even written down for us to read?
03 Dec 12
Originally posted by Proper Knobbwhahaha, that was funny, real funny.
The countries of the Germany and France is described in Revelation as a duel world power that does exactly as you have described here with their forced influance in most of the world since their beginnings of a few hundred years now.
Revelation 13:11-15
English Standard Version (ESV)
The Second Beast
11 Then I saw another beast rising out o ...[text shortened]... ns are usually in responce to protecting their interest and not always in the interest of peace.
03 Dec 12
Originally posted by galveston75I think your explanation makes the most sense.
I could say the exact thing about your description, right? So how does one come to a conclusion to whom this scripture is speaking of?
If no one cannot figure out who this scripture really applies to then why is it even written down for us to read?