Originally posted by galveston75Do you not understand the scripture? Paul says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. So yes believers go to be in heaven but there will be an army beyond count coming back with the Lord when He returns. Paul also says I tell you a mystery that not all shall die but at the last trump of God they will be changed in the blinking of an eye and made imperishable. So those believers who live to see that day will be changed.....Also when Jesus quotes what God says about "I am the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob" and they had already died a physical death yet Jesus said they were mistaken for God is not the God of the dead but of the living. This is because Abraham Issac and Jacob are alive in Heaven with God.
Not from what I've always heard. But going with this where are you thinking you will be let's say if you die and are resurrected Do you go to heaven or stay here on earth?
Because all I ever hear in responce to most Christians is they will go to heaven.
Manny
Originally posted by galveston75If I die today I will go and be with the Lord and when the end of time finally comes He will resurrect me with a new non-perishable body. (Of course I believe in human depravity and our sin nature being from the original fall of man) So I don't deserve to go to heaven at all but it's the grace and mercy of God that makes this possible for any man who will trust on and believe in what Jesus said.
Not from what I've always heard. But going with this where are you thinking you will be let's say if you die and are resurrected Do you go to heaven or stay here on earth?
Because all I ever hear in responce to most Christians is they will go to heaven.
Manny
Originally posted by menace71well, that's a good fantasy. but there are better ones.
If I die today I will go and be with the Lord and when the end of time finally comes He will resurrect me with a new non-perishable body. (Of course I believe in human depravity and our sin nature being from the original fall of man) So I don't deserve to go to heaven at all but it's the grace and mercy of God that makes this possible for any man who will trust on and believe in what Jesus said.
Manny
-Removed-Sorry, I mispoke.
I should have said 'I undestand that the JWs believe that the Bible says that the period since 1914 has been a bad time'.
At the time, my question was aimed at galveston75 with a view to addressing the allegations made about 'doom and gloom'. But I recognise that this was not clear and that I should have expressed my question better. Apologies.
On the other point. Yes, it doesn't surprise me that you might think this, though I don't think I have done anything to warrant either description.
On the closet JW point, I think you were on the thread where I confirmed that I have no faith at the moment, and whilst I do not know everything about JWs, I am pretty sure that this is an entry level requirement. As to the JW sympathiser point, I have spent quite some time recently arguing with galveston75 and robbie against their 'doom and gloom' perspective (if indeed they have one).
So, the answer is no, and no. Hope this clears the matter up.
Originally posted by Rajk999You will have seen my response to divegeester, and the same apology for my sloppy language goes to you.
Im sure everyone knows that the Bible says no such thing. This is why Galveston made a quick exit.
The JWs have stubbornly held on to their 'Christ is returning in 1914' prediction by saying [after the date passed] to reduce the embarrasment that the world did actually come to an end and Christ did really not have to return but instead now rules since 191 ...[text shortened]... so Christ made things worse after ruling for almost 100 yrs ..
Total nutcases those JWs.
I realise this request is unlikely to have a positive response, but I see no basis for the use of the term 'nutcases'. It is inaccurate and offensive and I would ask you to stop. You're a bright chap and you could do so much better to make your point.
Originally posted by galveston75In an earlier post, you said:
So I'm back and which scriptures would you like to see? The ones that speak of this time period from 1914? Thanks..
The Bible says that things "will go from bad to worse" during this time.
Thererfore anything that supports this view. I found quite a bit on the Watchtower site, so you can link directly to this if easier.
Also, is there anything about Satan's purpose for what he doing at this time? I know that he is angry, but does he have a specific plan?
Originally posted by Rank outsiderIts truly a sad reflection of the state of affairs when one has to defend ones objectivity
Sorry, I mispoke.
I should have said 'I undestand that the JWs believe that the Bible says that the period since 1914 has been a bad time'.
At the time, my question was aimed at galveston75 with a view to addressing the allegations made about 'doom and gloom'. But I recognise that this was not clear and that I should have expressed my question b ...[text shortened]... indeed they have one).
So, the answer is no, and no. Hope this clears the matter up.
in the face of ignorance and prejudice.
Originally posted by Rank outsiderI think the word 'nutcase' is a correct term which describes the JWs.
You will have seen my response to divegeester, and the same apology for my sloppy language goes to you.
I realise this request is unlikely to have a positive response, but I see no basis for the use of the term 'nutcases'. It is inaccurate and offensive and I would ask you to stop. You're a bright chap and you could do so much better to make your point.
You need a few more years of reading and interracting with them will prove that Im right 🙂. Are you reading some of these these threads when they lie, deceive, deflect so shamelessly?
eg .. you asked a direct and clear question pertaining to 1914 and all Galveston did was say he is going out, and when he returned he repeated your question and asked you if you are asking about 1914. No answer so far. These people are liars and deceivers. When you have had enough of their deceit you will change your views.
The year of 1914 as a Biblically significant year is established from the following
chronological prophecy.
WHEN GOD’S GOVERNMENT BEGINS ITS RULE
Well, then, where does the Bible foretell the year that Christ begins to rule as king of
God’s government? It is in this same Bible book of Daniel. (Daniel 4:10-37) There a
giant, heaven-high tree is used to represent King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He
was the highest human ruler at that time. However, King Nebuchadnezzar was forced
to know that someone higher was ruling. This one is “the Most High,” or “the King of
the heavens,” Jehovah God. (Daniel 4:34, 37) So, in a more important way, this
heaven-high tree, comes to represent the supreme rulership of God, particularly in
its relationship to our earth. Jehovah’s rulership was expressed for a time through
the kingdom that he set up over the nation of Israel. Thus the kings of the tribe of
Judah who reigned over the Israelites were said to “sit upon Jehovah’s
throne.”—1 Chronicles 29:23.
According to the Bible account in Daniel chapter four, the heaven-high tree was cut
down. However, the stump was left, and bands of iron and of copper were put on it.
This would keep the stump from growing until it was God’s time to remove the bands
and let it start growing again. But how and when was God’s rulership cut down?
In due course, the kingdom of Judah that Jehovah had set up became so corrupt
that he allowed King Nebuchadnezzar to destroy it, to cut it down. This happened in
the year 607 B.C.E. At that time Zedekiah, the last king of Judah to sit on Jehovah’s
throne, was told: “Lift off the crown. . . . it will certainly become no one’s until he
comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him.”—Ezekiel 21:25-27.
So God’s rulership, as represented by the “tree,” was cut down in 607 B.C.E. No
longer was there a government to represent God’s rulership in the earth. Thus, in
607 B.C.E. a period of time began that Jesus Christ later referred to as “the
appointed times of the nations,” or, “the times of the Gentiles.” (Luke 21:24; King
James Version) During these “appointed times” God did not have a government to
represent his rulership in the earth.
What was to happen at the end of these “appointed times of the nations”? Jehovah
was to give the power to rule to the One “who has the legal right.” This One is Jesus
Christ. So if we can find out when “the appointed times of the nations” end, we will
know when Christ begins to rule as king.
According to Daniel chapter four, these “appointed times” would be “seven times.”
Daniel shows that there would be “seven times” during which God’s rulership, as
represented by the “tree,” would not be in operation over the earth. (Daniel
4:16, 23) How long are these “seven times”?
In Revelation chapter 12, verses 6 and 14, we learn that 1,260 days are equal to “a
time [that is, 1 time] and times [that is, 2 times] and half a time.” That is a total of
3 1/2 times. So “a time” would be equal to 360 days. Therefore, “seven times”
would be 7 times 360, or 2,520 days. Now if we count a day for a year, according to
a Bible rule, the “seven times” equal 2,520 years.—Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6.
We have already learned that “the appointed times of the nations” began in the
year 607 B.C.E. So by counting 2,520 years from that date, we come down to
1914 C.E. That is the year these “appointed times” ended. Millions of people still
living remember the things that happened in 1914. In that year, World War I began a
period of terrible trouble that has continued to our day. This means that Jesus Christ
began to rule as king of God’s heavenly government in 1914. And because the
Kingdom has already started its rule, how timely it is that we pray for it to “come”
and wipe Satan’s wicked system of things from the earth!—Matthew 6:10; Daniel
2:44.
source: Jehovahs Witnesses, You can live forever, chapter 16, p.136. Published in
1989.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIs this the same Jehovah Witnesses
The year of 1914 as a Biblically significant year is established from the following
chronological prophecy.
WHEN GOD’S GOVERNMENT BEGINS ITS RULE
Well, then, where does the Bible foretell the year that Christ begins to rule as king of
God’s government? It is in this same Bible book of Daniel. (Daniel 4:10-37) There a
giant, heaven-high t ...[text shortened]... 4.
source: Jehovahs Witnesses, You can live forever, chapter 16, p.136. Published in
1989.
- which made hundreds of prophesies and all turned out to be false?
- which advised followers to sell property and material goods because Christ is returning to the Earth to establish his kingdom in 1914 ?
- which built a house [now abandoned] in San Deigo for returning saints to live in ?
Did not Christ say to beware of false prophets and that false prophet [Jehovah Witnesses] will be thrown into the lake of fire along with Satan and his angels?