1. Standard memberblack beetle
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    22 Sep '17 08:51
    It seems to me evil is not a Son of the Morning-generated force that draws one into “sin”. “Inherently evil” and “Inherently good” intentions and acts, and thus “inherently good” and “inherently bad” lifestyle, exist not. States of consciousness, acts and lifestyle morally “good”, “neutral” or “bad” are volition-depended.

    The unrighteous and the not useful should be known. The righteous and useful should be known and one should fall to the method which is righteous and useful. Purity and impurity depend on oneself. For whatever one desires, for one’s intentions and acts and way of living, one should accept full ownership and responsibility.

    May All Beings Be Happy
    😡
  2. Joined
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    23 Sep '17 00:38
    Originally posted by @black-beetle
    It seems to me evil is not a Son of the Morning-generated force that draws one into “sin”. “Inherently evil” and “Inherently good” intentions and acts, and thus “inherently good” and “inherently bad” lifestyle, exist not. States of consciousness, acts and lifestyle morally “good”, “neutral” or “bad” are volition-depended.

    The unrighteous and the not ...[text shortened]... y of living, one should accept full ownership and responsibility.

    May All Beings Be Happy
    😡
    ".., one should accept full ownership and responsibility."

    Indeed one will, regardless of what "it seems" to be.
  3. Standard memberKellyJay
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    23 Sep '17 02:34
    Originally posted by @black-beetle
    It seems to me evil is not a Son of the Morning-generated force that draws one into “sin”. “Inherently evil” and “Inherently good” intentions and acts, and thus “inherently good” and “inherently bad” lifestyle, exist not. States of consciousness, acts and lifestyle morally “good”, “neutral” or “bad” are volition-depended.

    The unrighteous and the not ...[text shortened]... y of living, one should accept full ownership and responsibility.

    May All Beings Be Happy
    😡
    So when they ate that fruit, what changed so that they now knew good and evil? Was it something in the fruit or something in the act?
  4. Standard memberblack beetle
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    24 Sep '17 08:56
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    So when they ate that fruit, what changed so that they now knew good and evil? Was it something in the fruit or something in the act?
    The myth of the Original Sin is a useful tool to me;

    Methinks both of them "good" and "evil" decisions were just volition-dependent. Their decision came from within, not from the snake; the snake provoked them but forced them not, and their decision were solely the product of a specific evaluation of their mind.
    When they ate the fruit, the point of attention of their minds shifted so that they then lost sight of their true nature.

    They were free to choose whatever they wanted to choose and face the consequences of their decision. The loss of the cognizance of their true nature is rooted neither in the fruit, nor in the act; it is rooted solely in their own intentions, which triggered their series of thoughs, which triggered the evaluation of their minds, which in turn triggered their act. And, a mere intention causes kamma.
    😡
  5. Standard memberKellyJay
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    24 Sep '17 16:201 edit
    Originally posted by @black-beetle
    The myth of the Original Sin is a useful tool to me;

    Methinks both of them "good" and "evil" decisions were just volition-dependent. Their decision came from within, not from the snake; the snake provoked them but forced them not, and their decision were solely the product of a specific evaluation of their mind.
    When they ate the fruit, the point o ...[text shortened]... ation of their minds, which in turn triggered their act. And, a mere intention causes kamma.
    😡
    I believe that they lost something that they had when they ate, the choice they made was made by them the devil didn't force them into it.

    The Lord walked and fellowshiped with them until then. The relationship that they had with God was gone, nothing they could do from that point could fix it. They broke faith and God restored us to Him through grace by faith.

    The veil between the Holy and Most Holy was torn from heaven to earth restoring what they lost.
  6. Standard memberblack beetle
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    25 Sep '17 06:21
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    I believe that they lost something that they had when they ate, the choice they made was made by them the devil didn't force them into it.

    The Lord walked and fellowshiped with them until then. The relationship that they had with God was gone, nothing they could do from that point could fix it. They broke faith and God restored us to Him through grace b ...[text shortened]...
    The veil between the Holy and Most Holy was torn from heaven to earth restoring what they lost.
    This is accurate according to the Christian dogma.

    However, if the mechanism regarding intentions, decision-making and acts is indeed volition-depended, it follows that “inherently evil” and “inherently good” intentions and acts, and thus “inherently good” and “inherently bad” lifestyle, exist not. What do you think?
    😡
  7. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    25 Sep '17 21:32
    Originally posted by @black-beetle
    It seems to me evil is not a Son of the Morning-generated force that draws one into “sin”. “Inherently evil” and “Inherently good” intentions and acts, and thus “inherently good” and “inherently bad” lifestyle, exist not. States of consciousness, acts and lifestyle morally “good”, “neutral” or “bad” are volition-depended.

    The unrighteous and the not ...[text shortened]... y of living, one should accept full ownership and responsibility.

    May All Beings Be Happy
    😡
    Yeah, blame is a lame game πŸ™‚c
  8. Standard memberKellyJay
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    25 Sep '17 23:36
    Originally posted by @black-beetle
    This is accurate according to the Christian dogma.

    However, if the mechanism regarding intentions, decision-making and acts is indeed volition-depended, it follows that “inherently evil” and “inherently good” intentions and acts, and thus “inherently good” and “inherently bad” lifestyle, exist not. What do you think?
    😡
    I would beg to differ with you, knowledgeable intent is not required for evil actions. It isn't required for breaking laws either. If intent was required for law breaking than ignorance of law would be an excuse. With respect to evil actions, ignorance of good or righteousness not ignorance of evil could cause someone to do something evil. Within scripture God put into place what needed to be done if someone discovered that they sinned in ignorance. That would not be required if it were not possible.
  9. Standard memberblack beetle
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    26 Sep '17 07:13
    Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
    Yeah, blame is a lame game πŸ™‚c
    Yes;

    I don't come very often here anymore as I have no time; hope you and your boy are OK, Charlie😡
  10. Standard memberblack beetle
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    26 Sep '17 07:31
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    I would beg to differ with you, knowledgeable intent is not required for evil actions. It isn't required for breaking laws either. If intent was required for law breaking than ignorance of law would be an excuse. With respect to evil actions, ignorance of good or righteousness not ignorance of evil could cause someone to do something evil. Within scripture ...[text shortened]... ne discovered that they sinned in ignorance. That would not be required if it were not possible.
    OK, but I didn’t say that knowledgeable intent is required for evil actions. I said that all intentions, and all thoughts, and all actions are volition-depended. If one disagrees as regards this matter, then one rejects the hypothesis that free will holds –but that’s another story.

    Therefore, since one’s “inherently good”, or “inherently neutral”, or “inherently bad” intentions, thoughts, acts and lifestyle are all just volition-dependent, each intention, thought, act and lifestyle lack of inherent substance; because, whatever has inherent substance, it has to stay eternally in separation of the conditions and the causal field that brought up its manifestation (in the context of the Christian dogma, the sole example of an entity with inherent substance is G-d; no other entity, and nothing else too, has such a quality).

    But, in fact, nothing in Kosmos has inherent substance. Everything is manifested by means of conditions and a specific causal field, and changes continuously until it fades away in the realm of a non-observed by us reality. Since volition manifests solely according to one’s will and since one’s will exclusively promotes mere events by means of intention, thoughts and acts and way of living, then one’s products lack of inherent substance. I can well paint that wall black like Mick, but it ain’t mean that the substance of that wall is blackness. The same evaluation holds as regards “good”, “bad”, this, that and everything: if it is good to a bobcat to kill that rabbit and thus manage to survive, this same action is bad to the bone to the bunnies that lost their mom cause they ‘ll starve to death;
    😡
  11. Standard memberKellyJay
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    26 Sep '17 08:421 edit
    Originally posted by @black-beetle
    OK, but I didn’t say that knowledgeable intent is required for evil actions. I said that all intentions, and all thoughts, and all actions are volition-depended. If one disagrees as regards this matter, then one rejects the hypothesis that free will holds –but that’s another story.

    Therefore, since one’s “inherently good”, or “inherently neutral”, o ...[text shortened]... action is bad to the bone to the bunnies that lost their mom cause they ‘ll starve to death;
    😡
    You believe we are chained by our make up? If one is "inherently" something, than that is
    what they will do, be it "good", "neutral", or "bad"? That sounds more like there is no hope
    to be, or do anything other than what one's nature tells them, I agree with you if I under
    stand what your saying, our nature is our nature.

    I think that Adam and Eve could have obeyed, they didn't, they were innocent, but they
    were part of a very good Kingdom until the fall. After the fall, now people have within their
    nature sin. If I understand your point, and I may not, that would mean that if you were
    "inherently bad" you'd have no choice, except to remain that way.

    With Christianity God came to save sinners, who by nature were/are inherently bad. The
    requirement being God in us, literally, making us born again. I believe that Adam and Eve
    were capable of doing what was required, but their volition would have had to be free to
    do what they will, what they will in either direction good or evil. If this were not true that
    means they were created to fall. That is what some believe I grant you, but I think not, it
    would mean that they were without choice, they will be judged for choices they could not
    avoid making. I believe God being good would not do that, the ability to choose, had to be
    there for both directions.

    Being bound by a nature to fall before sin means they were created with evil intent in
    them, no choice was ever there. If judgment is true, if indeed God gave them the ability
    to do anything than if means they could have gone either way.

    They knew good in their walking with God before the fall, but evil had not tainted them
    before the fall. They came to know that when they choose it, not before.
  12. Standard memberblack beetle
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    26 Sep '17 09:22
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    You believe we are chained by our make up? If one is "inherently" something, than that is
    what they will do, be it "good", "neutral", or "bad"? That sounds more like there is no hope
    to be, or do anything other than what one's nature tells them, I agree with you if I under
    stand what your saying, our nature is our nature.

    I think that Adam and Eve co ...[text shortened]... l had not tainted them
    before the fall. They came to know that when they choose it, not before.
    I am sure we lack of inherent substance. The lack of an inherent substance permits us to keep up changing. We are neither inherently good, nor inherently neutral, nor inherently evil.

    I am sure that anybody uses her cognitive apparatus according to the nature of her mind and her volition. If this holds, evil is truly done by oneself; by oneself is one defiled; by oneself is evil left undone, and by oneself is one purified; purity and impurity depend on oneself. No one purifies another.

    To me, the “nature of sin” is not a part of the man; the “nature of the Good” and the “nature of the Evil” are not a part of the man. The nature of one’s mind is all a man has inside, and in there exists Volition amongst else.
    And if one’s intuition and feelings are missing, one’s evaluation of the mind is worthless.

    I am sure one’s mind is able to bring up all the kinds of fruit. The nature of the man is just the nature of the mind of the man.
    😡
  13. Standard memberKellyJay
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    26 Sep '17 10:23
    Originally posted by @black-beetle
    I am sure we lack of inherent substance. The lack of an inherent substance permits us to keep up changing. We are neither inherently good, nor inherently neutral, nor inherently evil.

    I am sure that anybody uses her cognitive apparatus according to the nature of her mind and her volition. If this holds, evil is truly done by oneself; by oneself is o ...[text shortened]... up all the kinds of fruit. The nature of the man is just the nature of the mind of the man.
    😡
    No, if left alone we are doomed, but we are not. The thing is, if you actually believe what
    you have said you would have to think about God for a moment. God is good. That is one
    of the most important things ever, and by Him we are all created, the whole universe, by
    Him it all is sustained, by Him we have our being.

    When Adam and Eve broke faith with God, our connection we had with Him was broken.
    It has been restored, so now in Christ, the Author and Finisher of our faith, we have
    the Life, Way, and Truth our purifier.

    Our nature now is either found in the flesh, where we were are outside of Christ, or in
    God's Spirit. The Spirit of God, is a good thing. πŸ™‚
  14. Standard memberblack beetle
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    26 Sep '17 11:22
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    No, if left alone we are doomed, but we are not. The thing is, if you actually believe what
    you have said you would have to think about God for a moment. God is good. That is one
    of the most important things ever, and by Him we are all created, the whole universe, by
    Him it all is sustained, by Him we have our being.

    When Adam and Eve broke faith wit ...[text shortened]... where we were are outside of Christ, or in
    God's Spirit. The Spirit of God, is a good thing. πŸ™‚
    You name it G-d, other persons name it Allah or Shiva, meaning that under some circumstances they are in unison with a specific entity. I know what you mean and I think you should follow your evaluations and your beliefs if you feel in balance with yourself and the ones you serve and love, and if you do not cause harm to other sentient beings.

    During my conceptual and non-conceptual awareness I recognize dualism and non-dualism. When this mind is free of dualism and calms naturally in non-duality, all that exists is the Void. In the Void there is no good, no evil, no self, no otherness, no sameness, no difference, no feelings, no thoughts, no supernatural entities, no Creator, no Destroyer, no coming, no going, no birth, no death, no cause, no effect, no kamma. Just clear light.

    When back in the dualist realm of existence, I am immovable in my knowledge that my real nature is the nature of my mind -and the nature of my mind is clear light;
    😡
  15. Standard memberKellyJay
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    27 Sep '17 01:29
    Originally posted by @black-beetle
    You name it G-d, other persons name it Allah or Shiva, meaning that under some circumstances they are in unison with a specific entity. I know what you mean and I think you should follow your evaluations and your beliefs if you feel in balance with yourself and the ones you serve and love, and if you do not cause harm to other sentient beings.

    Durin ...[text shortened]... dge that my real nature is the nature of my mind -and the nature of my mind is clear light;
    😡
    No, not even close God isn't a homogeneous creature that everyone's idea of God all
    refers to the same one. I didn't name Him God, He is who He is, and nothing about
    Him changes due to how I think about Him.

    Throughout scripture you see God doing things that set Him a part from man, and any
    so called god there is. Creation, the fall, promises made, the flood, then calling out
    Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and even those choices were done with promises that
    required God to act. We also see Him do great things leading His people out of Egypt,
    after all of that He started a nation, made promises about a King to come that would
    have an eternal kingdom.

    This is a singular God, who speaks to His people, who isn't one who waits in the by
    and by, but is active with mankind. Those who are saved, are not so because they
    were able to reach some level of spirituality on their own, but through the gift of God,
    which is His grace. Saved sinners, the worthless being given grace by the most Holy.
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