Originally posted by @kellyjayHe said exactly what He meant. It also goes with several verses earlier in the book too.
Off the top of my head read John 6: 28-29, the rest I will get to later.
We either trust in Him or ourselves, I choose Jesus. I acknowledge He is my Lord, and
I acknowledge I cannot make myself good enough, but all I have I give to Him for He is
worthy, I'm not.
John 6: 28-29
28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
John 3: 14-18
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Originally posted by @rajk999Luke 17:8-10 English Standard Version (ESV)
Jesus did not say this : Doing good works is what we are supposed to do, so doing them is what exspected nothing more..
This part you said is in the passage you quoted in John 6 : Believing in Jesus is doing the Work of God.
Believing means believing in your heart which means to follow Christs commandments.
8 Will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare supper for me, and dress properly, and serve me while I eat and drink, and afterward you will eat and drink’? 9 Does he thank the servant because he did what was commanded? 10 So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.’”
Your efforts should be what the Lord wants, but don't think to highly of yourself when you
do them.
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Originally posted by @thinkofoneOh the irony.
It's easy to make vacuous claims KJ. When it comes time to back up your claims, you've got absolutely nothing to show.
No big surprise there.
Originally posted by @dj2beckerIf the text has to be altered to back up a view it isn't the text but the view that should be
Oh the irony.
rejected. There is a lot of assumptions that twist the meaning of text when the text is very
clear. No one for example can point to a verse that says, by your works you are saved, but
we all agree our works will be judged. We are saved by grace through faith, we are told to
believe in Jesus, not our own efforts.
Originally posted by @kellyjayYour error and the error of all the Christian churches is that their focus is on HOW THEY ARE SAVED AND WHO IT IS THAT SAVES THEM, and ignore what they need to DO to inherit eternal life.
If the text has to be altered to back up a view it isn't the text but the view that should be
rejected. There is a lot of assumptions that twist the meaning of text when the text is very
clear. No one for example can point to a verse that says, by your works you are saved, but
we all agree our works will be judged. We are saved by grace through faith, we are told to
believe in Jesus, not our own efforts.
They rant and rave that they are saved by Grace, saved by their faith, saved by the blood of Christ. All that is correct but it misses the mark, It does not hit the nail on the head about what is REQUIRED for eternal life and, what a person must DO to inherit eternal life in the Kingdom of God. A certain lifestyle is REQUIRED - good works and righteousness are necessary. Claims that you have the Spirit of Christ and therefore you will be walking out your life doing good works, is just plain nonsense.
The Good Samaritan and the poor suffering beggar outside the Rich Man, are saved by Grace. They had no knowledge of Christ death and resurrection but they will be in the Kingdom of God.
Jesus saves and rewards all those who live righteously and do good works with eternal life in the Kingdom of God. Your talk and your boasting of your faith is dead and useless if you do not support your belief with good works. Paul said the very same thing. -Christians are saved by Grace, but only inherit eternal life IF they live righteously. Saved is not the same as eternal life. They are two different things.
Originally posted by @thinkofoneBy saying the "Bible is widely open to interpretation and contains inconsistencies, discrepancies and outright contradictions" you are directly contradicting what the Bible says about itself.
Actually I'm using the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry "to discredit what Kelly says.
By and large, the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry is reasonably sound and reasonably coherent within itself. However, the Bible in its entirety is not. The Bible IS "widely open to interpretation and contains inconsistencies, discrepancies and outright contradictions".
Where exactly is the hypocrisy in my position?
You're saying exactly what Satan says.
Originally posted by @rajk999You should read the text believing is required for eternal life. Jesus was clear on that point, I agree obviously that we should be obeying God, but our works don’t save us.
Your error and the error of all the Christian churches is that their focus is on HOW THEY ARE SAVED AND WHO IT IS THAT SAVES THEM, and ignore what they need to DO to inherit eternal life.
They rant and rave that they are saved by Grace, saved by their faith, saved by the blood of Christ. All that is correct but it misses the mark, It does not hit the n ...[text shortened]... IF they live righteously. Saved is not the same as eternal life. They are two different things.
Originally posted by @kellyjaythe Priest and the Levite had belief and faith. They get cast out..
You should read the text believing is required for eternal life. Jesus was clear on that point, I agree obviously that we should be obeying God, but our works don’t save us.
The Good Samaritan had works. He gets eternal life.
The Sheep had works
'The Goats had faith.
God is not impressed with professions of faith.
God loves doers and followers of the commandments.
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1 edit
Originally posted by @rajk999the Priest and the Levite had belief and faith.
the Priest and the Levite had belief and faith. They get cast out..
The Good Samaritan had works. He gets eternal life.
The Sheep had works
'The Goats had faith.
God is not impressed with professions of faith.
God loves doers and followers of the commandments.
Says who? Faith without works is dead.
Originally posted by @rajk999You are adding to the texts things not said.
Your error and the error of all the Christian churches is that their focus is on HOW THEY ARE SAVED AND WHO IT IS THAT SAVES THEM, and ignore what they need to DO to inherit eternal life.
They rant and rave that they are saved by Grace, saved by their faith, saved by the blood of Christ. All that is correct but it misses the mark, It does not hit the n ...[text shortened]... IF they live righteously. Saved is not the same as eternal life. They are two different things.
Originally posted by @kellyjayThe fact that you do not identify what I have added means that you dont know what you are talking about. It is a simple matter of cutting and pasting the parts you think I have added. Like I have said before many times you lack the ability to communicate clearly so that people can understand.
You are adding to the texts things not said.
Originally posted by @rajk999It be easier to communicate if you would limit the conversation to things actually said, and scripture as it’s written instead of changing things to suit you.
The fact that you do not identify what I have added means that you dont know what you are talking about. It is a simple matter of cutting and pasting the parts you think I have added. Like I have said before many times you lack the ability to communicate clearly so that people can understand.
Originally posted by @kellyjayAgain a vague comment with nothing specific stating what you think I have changed.
It be easier to communicate if you would limit the conversation to things actually said, and scripture as it’s written instead of changing things to suit you.
Clearly you have nothing of substance to contribute
Originally posted by @kellyjayComplete nonsense.
Luke 17:8-10 English Standard Version (ESV)
8 Will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare supper for me, and dress properly, and serve me while I eat and drink, and afterward you will eat and drink’? 9 Does he thank the servant because he did what was commanded? 10 So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we ...[text shortened]... efforts should be what the Lord wants, but don't think to highly of yourself when you
do them.
You state this Doing good works is what we are supposed to do, so doing them is what exspected nothing more.
I replied stating that Jesus said no such thing and you quote an irrelevant passage as your supporting reference
Originally posted by @rajk999Even when it is pointed out to you it doesn’t sink in. When scripture is given that goes directly against your point you ignore and belittle.
The fact that you do not identify what I have added means that you dont know what you are talking about. It is a simple matter of cutting and pasting the parts you think I have added. Like I have said before many times you lack the ability to communicate clearly so that people can understand.